Band tuning in relation to my bar placement.

memphislim · Post by **memphislim** » 25 May 2021 4:36 pm

edited

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 25 May 2021 4:49 pm

memphislim wrote: ...I now take all my fret boards off and trim them down by the amount needed...

How do you trim them down and get a straight smooth edge???
A friend gave me a spare fretboard and I can see it needs to be trimmed down about 1 or 2 millimeters.
Thanks for the info.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 26 May 2021 1:22 am

Ernie Renn wrote:[Buddy] was closer to being in tune with the horns and other fixed tuning instruments.

I feel a little awkward taking issue with Ernie, but every note on a wind instrument has to be tuned with the lips (or the slide on a trombone). If you want to hear the raw untreated sound, listen to a school orchestra. It isn't the cheap student instruments that are out, it's the undeveloped players. If the tempering is done skilfully you get the impression of "fixed" tuning, but horn sections do not play in ET - they have no way of doing so and can only get in tune with each by eliminating beats.

memphislim · Post by **memphislim** » 26 May 2021 6:30 am

It's not easy to cut them straight and smooth. I put a piece of tape right at the spot needed, then line up both edges of the tape on my old school paper cutter and slice away. Because most fret boards are tapered you can't just square it up to a fence. That's why I make sure the tape is perfectly placed before proceeding.

On thicker material, I have used a table saw with a miter gauge to compensate for the taper.

Ross Shafer · Post by **Ross Shafer** » 26 May 2021 7:43 am

"I may be crazy by doing all this...."

I concur...and glad for it!

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 26 May 2021 8:01 am

A vertical belt sander table using a worn fine grit belt may also work well. Using your masking tape for a guide and slowly touch it into the vertical belt.
Another option:
Using a scrap piece of aluminum for a quide and C clamp it onto the table at the proper angle of the fret board could be very accurate for the feed.
Take the belt off and push the fret board against the vertical belt support, slide the scrap piece of aluminum or metal guide against the side of the fret board and clamp it there. You'll have an exact proper angle of fret board to belt. Slide the worn belt on and you should get an exact fit.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 26 May 2021 9:42 am

I only really pay attention to the fretboard on the first and second frets where I have a tendency to play out of tune. Other than that, I guess everything's okay. No complaints from other musicians.

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 26 May 2021 9:46 am

It's what vibrato is for.

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 28 May 2021 11:59 am

Ian;

Never feel awkward about any of this. It's a discussion.

While not being verbatim, I was repeating what Buddy said to me.

Here's my tuning story: I was telling him that I was frequently sounding out of tune. He suggested I try tuning straight up. I was out on the road at the time. So, I brought my guitar to the hotel room and retuned the guitar. In the room it sounded hopelessly out of tune. I told him that and he said I should slightly flatten the thirds. (No pedals: the G#'s, Ped 1&2: the C#'s. Ped 2 & E lower: the Eb's). This was in the late 80's. I thought it sounded too far out of tune, so I tuned it back. This was late 80's.

Move to the early 90's, we talked about it again. I was having the same tuning issues. He asked if I had tried tuning straight up? I said I had, but thought it was out of tune. He asked if the notes that sounded out of tune, were in tune with the tuner? I said they were. He said that I should trust the tuner for a night. Initially it sounded sharp, but by the end of the night most stuff sounded in tune. I had forgotten to lower the thirds, but after doing that it all seemed to be fairly close. (I've been tuning this way for close to thirty years now...)

Be advised: If you'll be mostly playing alone, with a rhythm track using this tuning is probably not the way to go. For that I used the chart the (Emmons Guitar Tuning Chart)...

BOTTOM LINE: To avoid a continual internal battle: Tune the way it sounds IN-TUNE to YOU or you'll NEVER be happy with it.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 28 May 2021 12:47 pm

I'll go with the use your ears at all times approach.

To help that there are things to do.

Don't listen to one particular instrument unless its an electronic piano for pitch. Listen to everybody to find where and how wide the tonal center is.

When in doubt lean sharp. Just a little though. Like a cent or 2.

Wear ear protection. Good prescription ear molds that bring the overall level down evenly. Stages can be a real mess sonicly. If your ears are not struggling with all the standing waves and painful transients it is much more easy to listen inside the mud to find your pitch.

And the big one for me that I struggle with is to know what you are going to play before you play it. I have a hard time playing in tune when my brain is working on finding a part.

I'm pretty sure that how you tune doesn't matter as much as we think. Once the bar hits the strings all bets are off.

Oh yea, and don't blame the other players. I don't know how they do it but guys like John Hughey, Charleton and other players at that level always play in tune no matter what is happening around them.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 May 2021 1:12 pm

It sounds like the band members aren't in tune with each other. Your ear is "centering" on one player or singer, and then it refocuses on another when that player is dominant. As a result, the tonal center of the band keeps changing, and you're left trying to compensate. If there's more than one electronic tuner in a band, that can lead to problems. Everyone tunes to their own reference, but none of them are in exact sync. The answer is to have only one player tune to an electronic tuner, and then everyone else should tune to that player.

Of course, if someone (usually the singer) can't hold a tune and stay on key, then all bets are off. Just do the best you can...and smile. $:\$

Stephen Pride · Post by **Stephen Pride** » 28 May 2021 4:49 pm

Ernie Renn wrote:the (Emmons Guitar Tuning Chart)....

Thanks for sharing this. Forgive me if this has already been discussed a million times, but: Buddy Emmons didnâ€™t have a lower for his 9th string?

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 29 May 2021 10:48 am

Yes, Buddy lowered the 9th D to C#. The chart ISN'T Buddy's tuning chart. More Buddy info HERE...

The tuning chart is the chart Emmons Guitar Co. would use for new guitars. It was said that Ron Lashley, Sr. sat down and honed in the numbers for Buddy on the Black Album. I don't know if it's true or not, but it does sound good.

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 29 May 2021 12:55 pm

First off... the other instruments have to be in tune with each other and that can be subjective by the way they fret or pick their strings. But, it's a real good start.
Then, you must have your guitar in tune, preferably with the tuner they use. However, you must use your ears to stay in tune with them. Even though we have fret markers on the Fretboard, they are just a reference to being in tune. They are not infallible because of bar width, bar placement and parallax view. Sometimes it can be really frustrating and annoying, but, it's just something we have to deal with. On the other hand, you might want to speak with your bandmates about the tunability issues and try to work out a feasible solution. Hopefully, they hear it too and want to work out the tuning problem.

Jim Fogarty · Post by **Jim Fogarty** » 29 May 2021 10:33 pm

I know this can be a touchy issue, so let me say up front.....

I'm NOT referring to the OP, or really anyone in particular on this thread. This is just a general observation.

Playing in tune on this instrument is really difficult. That's a given. It's something that needs to be worked on constantly, IMO, even when we think we don't need it. I sometimes find it a little funny, all the discussion of tempered and sweetened tunings, etc.......then you hear a clip of one of the people in that discussion playing, and they're simply OUT of tune. In fact, far more steel players play out of tune than realize, I think.

Hell, I heard a ballad live clip of one of the big names we all know and love, and while it was stunning playing, he was simply OUT quite a bit in the clip. I mentioned this to another steel player and he told me I must be nuts because XX NEVER plays out of tune, and is simply incapable of doing so. But he absolutely was......so we fool ourselves sometimes.

Don't think I don't include myself, either. I just did a remote recording for a friend. The first take was pretty pitchy, so I redid it, and thought it was good.....and it WAS, compared to the first take. But when I sent it him, he (rightfully) busted me for some pitchy parts on the "good" take, too. See, after a bad 1st take, my ears tricked me into thinking better = good enough. It wasn't.

Instead of worrying about sweetening, etc, I think we all could stand to dial up a simple one note drone and practice with it each day a bit. If you turn on say an "F" note drone and start playing chords, harmonized scales and double stops against it, it can be an eye-opener.

https://youtu.be/cC4DzsV4ivs

YMMV

The Steel Guitar Forum

Band tuning in relation to my bar placement.

If it sounds "out", it is out!