Odd sized replacement cones for tricone

[Dan Koncelik]

Months ago I started my lap steel adventure by buying a John Morton 7 string tricone resonator on this very forum. I was told by the seller that it takes the standard National replacement cones, which put me at ease buying such a custom instrument. Opened it up today to find that it doesn't. At all!

These Morton cones are substantially smaller in diameter, at 4.5". Searching old forum posts to see if Mr Morton left any written clues/information just yields that he did indeed spin his own cones and was experimenting with their heights...

So....would anyone know where or how I'd be able to find replacement cones?! Someone who inherited new-old Morton stock from his workshop after he passed? Someone who knows how to spin aluminum or knows someone who does? Or knows someone who knows someone who does?

Thank you in advance,
Dan

[Howard Parker]

I know that Paul Beard has "chucks" for the National cones. He's occasionally done some customization in the past.

I don't know if this translates to something he can do so..best to reach out to him at Beard Guitars next week.

301-733-8271

Wish you good luck with this.

hp

- edit to wonder if the guitar might be adapted to accommodate a National sized cone. Again, Paul is the expert. Worth a discussion.

[Dan Koncelik]

I know that Paul Beard has "chucks" for the National cones. He's occasionally done some customization in the past.

I don't know if this translates to something he can do so..best to reach out to him at Beard Guitars next week

Thanks, H.P.! Seems like a logical place to start....then maybe National-Resophonic if Paul can't help...then...

I had an out-of-the-box idea:

What if I 3D scanned one of the odd-sized cones, edited the scan file a bit due to the fact that the cone is slightly misshapen (hence needing to be replaced) and had the file 3D printed?! Maybe try different materials?

Could be very interesting, no?

[Howard Parker]

What if I 3D scanned one of the odd-sized cones, edited the scan file a bit due to the fact that the cone is slightly misshapen (hence needing to be replaced) and had the file 3D printed?! Maybe try different materials?

Could be very interesting, no?

Well,

There's a reason why an aluminum alloy has been used for 92 (?) years.

Can you actually see spin marks in those cones or are they stamped? Curious.

Good luck.

h

[David Ball]

I know that Paul Beard has "chucks" for the National cones. He's occasionally done some customization in the past.

I don't know if this translates to something he can do so..best to reach out to him at Beard Guitars next week

Thanks, H.P.! Seems like a logical place to start....then maybe National-Resophonic if Paul can't help...then...

I had an out-of-the-box idea:

What if I 3D scanned one of the odd-sized cones, edited the scan file a bit due to the fact that the cone is slightly misshapen (hence needing to be replaced) and had the file 3D printed?! Maybe try different materials?

Could be very interesting, no?

Years ago, I vacuum formed some plastic cones for a tricone as an experiment. I figured that since a lot of speakers use plastic cones, why not try them on a National. They sounded fine, but not as good as the aluminum ones. At the time, OMI cones were the only ones available for tricones. I spun my own in those days--mainly for ukes.

Dave

[Dan Koncelik]

There's a reason why an aluminum alloy has been used for 92 (?) years.

Can you actually see spin marks in those cones or are they stamped? Curious.

Good luck.

They were spun. The lines were visible. According to this 3D printing services company, they can print in aluminum! Not solid aluminum, obviously, but from a powdered form cured together by laser:

https://www.sculpteo.com/en/materials/s ... -material/

They say that printed aluminum comes out roughly textured. Going by 92 years of precedent, I'm assuming a smooth surface to be a better transmitter of sound; so, if I go this route, the printed cones would have to be polished. This company offers polishing, too.

Years ago, I vacuum formed some plastic cones for a tricone as an experiment. I figured that since a lot of speakers use plastic cones, why not try them on a National. They sounded fine, but not as good as the aluminum ones. At the time, OMI cones were the only ones available for tricones. I spun my own in those days--mainly for ukes.

Very cool, good to know if I need to fall down the 3D printing rabbit hole. If you care to spin cones once again, let me know! Now that you mentioned cones for ukes, maybe a uke cone would fit, since my Morton takes a smaller-than-standard size

[David Ball]

Uke cones very well might fit--if you can get them without the top being punched down for the biscuit. Might talk to National about that...

In my ukes, I used bigger cones. I was building them before I discovered that there had ever been resonator ukes! How naive of me!

Here's one of my ukes from the late 80's:




Dave

[David Ball]

Thinking more about alternatives to aluminum cones and the history of some alternatives (I'm still a believer in aluminum cones though): Before National, there were the "Phono Fiddles," and "Strohviols," and other such Victrola/musical instrument hybrids. The later, better Victrolas like the Orthophonic or the Columbia Viva Tonal used soundboxes with aluminum diaphragms. Earlier versions used mica discs or other similar diaphragms. Edison used thin ebony diaphragms in his diamond disc reproducers--all were really very hi-fi when set up right. I have an early resophonic tenor banjo that used a paper cone like you'd find in a speaker as the resonator, connected to the bridge by way of a rod, much like in a Dobro spider type resonator.

At any rate, there's a long history of various materials being used for resonators, both before and after the National system was devised. All of them have worked to some degree or another.

Just some miscellaneous thoughts from a long time reso experimenter....

Dave