First Pedal Steel Indecision - Ambient/Voicing Focus

[Kenneth Little]

Hey everyone, new member here who is looking to buy my first pedal steel. I am new into exploring music seriously over the past year and have been focused on ambient percussion, playing gongs largely. The pedal steel has been a sound and love for me as long as I can remember and I’ve always wanted to learn and think the two instruments could make some very interesting recordings.

I am looking to get a pedal steel that has a really wide range of dynamics and tone for creating deep ambient soundscape kind of sounds and voicing. I did grow up listening to steel and have always loved a wide range of players like Jon Rauhouse, Buddy Emmons, and Daniel Lanois.

I have leaned towards starting with a C6 or D10, but wondering if a U12 isn’t the right direction. Given my low level of musical background I think any setup will be a significant learning curve and will be taking lessons locally.

Any thoughts on what neck(s) might be the most interesting to explore for a wide soundscape? If leaning U12, any models you’d recommend? I am in Toronto and have contacted Al. He has a beauty Carter D10 that I am considering, but wondering if waiting for a U12 up here might be what I should look for to hear in-person.

Thank you in advance and great to meet everyone!
-Ken

[Fred Treece]

Can’t speak for the others you’ve mentioned, but Daniel Lanois uses a pretty standard setup S10 E9 ShoBud, from what I can tell.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... is&start=0
The interviewer is kind of a top shelf dork, but there may be some information in the video that you find useful.

Standard C6 has a wider intervallic range across the strings than E9, so wider chord voicings are more easily accessible.

U12 is the intergalactic starfleet flagship of pedal steel, but lots of people who have been playing awhile think its the one new players should start on. If you have access, give as many different configurations as possible a try.

Among the most important things to consider is how the guitar fits you ergonomically. All the bells n whistles in the world won’t matter if you can’t work with them.

[Jim Robbins]

Welcome to the forum and to the fairly small world of Toronto psg players, of which I am one. I'm a D10 player so can't speak to universals from personal experience. Susan Alcorn plays one and can get pretty much any sound you can think of and then some but then she's Susan Alcorn.

I agree with Fred that the sounds you are after are likely to be found on the E9 neck. I see on Al's website that he's got a used Williams S12 set up as extended E9 which might be perfect for you - you get the wider range + the standard set up that Lanois and others use. I don't know what Rauhouse uses but it sounds like E9 when he's not playing no-pedals.

I think you will have a hard time getting the sounds you're after from C6 - it's a versatile tuning but steep learning curve to get away from western swing type sounds. Of course ambient western swing is largely unexplored territory so who knows, you could start a whole new thing.

[Kenneth Little]

Thanks Jim and Fred. I think the reason I leaned C6 is just due to how much low drone I play and like the concept of stretching that direction with steel. But really sounds like don’t jump into anything without hearing and playing. Excited for the lockdowns to loosen up here in Ontario so I can make that happen. Sounds like for now maybe just keep pining until I can get to Al’s to give everything a listen and a feel.

Definitely hope we have the occasion to meet sometime Jim, I am in Cabbagetown and know Al was saying there is at least another player in the neighborhood.

[John McClung]

Kenneth, go check out the youtube channel of DwayneKong, the pseudonym of Doug Livingston, who goes by another pseudonym of Earnest Bovine here on the Forum (Doug must be on the run from the IRS, or just have a wacky sense of humor!). While not an ambient player AFAIK, he plays fabulous pop standards and very difficult classical music ditties, all on extended E9, which is the standard 10 strings, plus a low G# and E on the bottom end.

That's the setup I play as well, and think it is well-suited to your ambient and atmospheric journey.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1EVhq ... WxxRvMEqbA

Additionally, check out Rick Schmidt's channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/questforgigs

Like me, Rick plays extended E9 and extended C6. His videos demonstrate both necks in action, and Rick is a great player who should be more well-known.

I hope this helps a bit!

All best,
John McClung
Pedal Steel Lessons, Casuals, Sessions
Olympia, WA 98512
Email: steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net
Easy PayPal link: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme2/JohnMcClung
Website – http://steelguitarlessons.com
Skype name: professortwang
Cell & text: 310-480-0717

[Fred Treece]

Agree with you, John. I’ve been playing 12-string Ext. E9 for about a year and a half now. It fills in the missing links for me. Even with a standard 3&5 configuration, it expands the palette into a more familiar guitaristic range.

[Cappone dAngelo]

I'm new to PSG (just got my first one less than 2 months ago), but am also Canadian and have similar influences - including Rauhouse and Lanois! I would recommend extended E9. Note that Lanois often uses open tunings where he doubles up some of the strings for easier open droning.

That Williams that Al has listed looks great - if that had been available I would likely have bought it instead of my SD10. Don't underestimate the hassles of buying from the US right now - I've bought oodles of gear from the US over the last decade plus, and never had anywhere near the hassles and costs as I did buying the PSG from the US earlier this year. I won't even get into the details, but if I could have driven an hour to buy one locally ... that's a much better option. Though now that the snow storms in Texas are done and COVID is getting somewhat better, the delays may be less. In any event, if you can find one in Canada, go for it. And if you buy from Al you know you'll get an instrument that's in great condition, and if you want changes to it he can assist. Out here in Vancouver I haven't yet found anyone that can help change my cope dent, for example.

[John McClung]

Cappone, consider making the drive to Southern Washington, the new home of steel tech genius Lynn Stafford, works on all brands, did my Zumsteel, really excels on Emmons p/p. Hit me up for his phone number.

[Christopher Woitach]

Everything here is spot on, the upshot being that pretty much any tuning could work for you.

I learned for a short time on E9/B6 Uni, have played since on Bb6 Uni, S12 guitars. Since you don’t already play, and since you haven’t expressed interest in playing classic steel styles, I would have to vote for some kind of 12 string Universal guitar. I play lots of styles on Bb6, and I prefer the 6th tuning in general (suits my mind), but either one is capable of almost anything you can think up..

Just my view - like I said, all the other suggestions are excellent.

[Cappone dAngelo]

Cappone, consider making the drive to Southern Washington, the new home of steel tech genius Lynn Stafford, works on all brands, did my Zumsteel, really excels on Emmons p/p. Hit me up for his phone number.

Thanks John - the border is currently closed, but once it opens up again I may very well head down there (we're due for a road trip to Portland!).

[Ken Pippus]

That Williams is stunning. In your position, I would have already succumbed!

[Kenneth Little]

Sounds like the Williams was an ephemeral opportunity and it sold 2 hours after it was posted. Too bad, but will continue to look for something similar.

[Bob Hoffnar]

For playing the music you have referenced and expanding into alternate tunings a D10 might be perfect. The E9 will cover all the steel playing you are into already with ease and the C neck could be used for alternate tunings without screwing up your E neck. I have found that when I dig into experimental tonalities , in particular ratio based harmonic stuff, I can tune the strings on the C neck for a particular piece and play the rest of the gig on the E neck.

Plus the C6 neck is big fun !

[Pete Burak]

You should check out Bill Stafford. He is a 14 string Universal player. The Sierra Steel Guitar company made a model that he developed called "The Stafford Elegante"
He is an ambient stylist on Pedal Steel, who did the soundtrack for a movie called My Own Private Idaho.
I personally think the range of a single neck Universal would be great for the type of sound you are describing.
Here are a few links to Bill's playing, the first one is his soundtrack.
https://youtu.be/sAQDS-BRTCA
https://youtu.be/_Te17xe61MI
https://youtu.be/5OxzynpJnF4

[Kenneth Little]

Took a little while to find the right guitar but snagged a great sounding ‘08 Carter S-12 that’s almost never been played from Al. (Im)patiently waited for this one to come over from the UK but so glad I did. Thanks for everyone on the helpful guidance and while I still can’t pick clean yet, I can see the S12 really isn’t too hard to adjust to if you aren’t retraining muscle memory. Definitely forces you to use your grey matter though in converting instructions, but probably helpful as it forces me to think a bit more critically about what I am doing.

Super excited to start on this journey, thanks again for all the help!