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Topic: 7th on String 1 |
Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 23 Mar 2021 6:33 pm |
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Lately I’ve been using a 7 string tuning with the 7th on the first string. I really like it, and wonder why I don’t see it on other tunings?
My tuning is a G13, e G B G B D F
On my 6 strings, I leave off the high F for a slightly more conventional G6, e G B G B D
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G6 – e G D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 24 Mar 2021 9:51 am
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Interesting...the closest I get to that is with a major 7th on top, not a b7...
With a 7 string it would be this:
G B D F A C E
What you call it might vary. My teacher has called it FMaj7. From bottom up it is, in G:
1 3 5 b7 9 11 13
So you could very easily describe it as a true, full G13. That said, that's not how you use it practically...in practice it is like a FMaj7/G9 split tuning:
| Code: |
G B D F A C E
____6_1__3_5_7 | FMaj7 (add 6)
1_3_5_b7_9____ | G9 (with the 11th and 13th too, sure, but less commonly used)
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Basically the same format as B11 (which I think of as split A6/B9) but with one extra note on top that adds a major 7. If I ever had a 9 string, I would put B11 on it with an extra top G# to give the same basic effect.
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Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Cappone dAngelo
From:
Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Posted 24 Mar 2021 7:43 pm
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Agreed!
I recently built a lap steel and decided to string it CEGBDF - so it has the m7 of the G7 chord on string 1. I like having full major, min, maj7, min7, and diminished triad all available without slants, and I can get augmented triad with a slant on strings 1-3.. |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 24 Mar 2021 11:00 pm
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The tuning I think of when I think of b7 on top is F#9th, as famously used by Dick Mcintire.
E C# G# E A# F#
b7 5 2 b7 3 1
Twilight Blues:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExrJCvglgBE
Supposedly his 7 string version was as follows:
E C# G# E C# A# F#
b7 5 2 b7 5 3 1
Joaquin Murphey took the 6 string version and adapted it as:
E C# G# E A# (A#)
Here the last A# is re-entrant between the G# and C# allowing for nice closed voice harmony. His chord solos in this tuning are amazing with the awesome slants granted by the top 4 strings of the old C#min/E6th tuning. The re-entrant A# allows for tighter 9th chord voicings.
Guy Cundell's discussion on his research on this tuning is a must watch, and his amazing transcriptions of Murphey's work in this tuning are a must see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfCPyIICRX8
I remember reading on the forum that Herb Remington got this 8 string variant on F#9th from another unnamed player in a bar in the mid 40s. The D# is pitched right below the high E, and the F# is pitched above it. With those additions, it is now F#13th:
E C# G# E A# F# (D#) (F#)
b7 5 2 b7 3 1 6 1
This tuning was given to Speedy West who used it most famously on "I'll Never be Free." Great thread on that and this tuning here:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=155609&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Other songs I suspect are using this tuning:
Herb Remington - I'm Draggin (on the Remington Rides Again album-- a must-listen)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta8TLTRFwoI
Little Coquette with Bob Wills 1949
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27se5deXUC0
Todd Clinesmith Wabash Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-cEXlDZqEE
Jeremy Wakefield Mugsy's Flop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUIV3qYrM5c
If I recall correctly, I read a post by Billy Tonnenson saying that Herb Remington gave him this version in 1946, which interestingly has Murphey's Re-entrant A#.
E C# G# E A# (F#) (D#) (A#)
Anyway, I tried them all, and liked this one the most: I eventually decided to try putting the re-entrant (F#)(D#)(A#) strings in order, and then instead of having a high F# above the high E, I decided to put a middle F# in the middle below the G# string instead:
E D# C# A# G# F# E A#
b7 6 5 3 2 1 b7 3
With this, by skipping every other string starting from the high E, you get E C# G# E, which not only lets me get the classic C#minor slants, but also allows me to do them at a much less extreme bar angle. Also, there are a lot of closed voicings since the strings are all so close to each other, pitch-wise.
TL;DR: There definitely is a rich heritage of 7th on top tunings with the F#9th tuning family!
Last edited by Joe A. Roberts on 25 Mar 2021 5:12 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 24 Mar 2021 11:02 pm
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| Cappone dAngelo wrote: |
Agreed!
I recently built a lap steel and decided to string it CEGBDF - so it has the m7 of the G7 chord on string 1. I like having full major, min, maj7, min7, and diminished triad all available without slants, and I can get augmented triad with a slant on strings 1-3.. |
Right! Adding the C makes your tuning even more versatile. I play mostly blues, so I opted to simplify, and also double up on the major root.
@JoeRoberts, thanks for all that information! I’m going to dig into it. Besides the 7 on top, those tunings are also interesting to me because they are reentrant.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G6 – e G D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 24 Mar 2021 11:46 pm
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There certainly is a lot to be found on tunings outside of the usual root, 3rd or 5th on top configurations. A6th and B11th I like also with a high 6th (F#) on top.
The ECAFDB and G# E C# A F# D# B that Nic Neufeld mentioned is also awesome.
Cody Farewell has a beautiful performance using the ECAFDB on his youtube channel:
Beautiful Maheleani Moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6ClMnQXEU0
And I remember the player in this video saying this was B11th with the G# on top:
Shiny Stockings
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmuXcUjfrJ4
Personally, I have never been able to get along with re-entrant tunings, although I can see the advantage if one’s style is more percussive, or has a lot of strumming, |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2021 4:58 am
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Liking this thread!! Great info and links!
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 6 Apr 2021 2:54 pm
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I’m still not sure why the “7 on top” isn’t more popular, but I found the high high “f” string to be either too taught or too thin for my liking.
I’ve gone back to a tuning that I used before, G9. Either GBDFAD or gGBDFAD. No more 6th chords or minor7 chords, but I still have major and minor chords, plus dominant 7s and 9th chords.
I’ve also enjoyed reading the posts in this thread!
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G6 – e G D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 17 Jun 2021 11:47 am Update
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For the past few months I’ve gone back to tunings based upon Open D.
For my 7-string that currently means D7 (DADF#ACD with the 7th on string 2.
For my 6-string tuning, I’ve bumped it up to E7 with the 7th on string 1, (EBEG#BD). I found the C on string 1 (D7) to be too loose and too low. E7 sounds more balanced to my ears.
Both tunings are great for blues jamming and improvising. |
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