Pedal Bar - to - Leg connection

[Jon Light]

I got into this subject on a different post but it interests me enough to merit its own thread.

All steel guitars have always had a short list of engineering problems seeking engineering solutions, ranging from how to convert pedal motion into a string pull to how to connect a pedal assembly to the guitar. Historically there have been a variety of ways to get there. Some ideas ended up as evolutionary dead ends. Other ideas are great but never caught on. And others are the industry standard.

On the subject of pedal bar/leg connection:

A vast majority of guitars use this method (or at least, every single steel I've ever owned does).



But I recently saw a cool variation from Chuck Back at Desert Rose. The bar is in an indent and once set, it will go nowhere. (can't find the picture ...)

This Marrs is in my shop right now. I love the idea. The rack sits on the floor. The legs stand inside of the rack, fully bottomed out. That rubber foot is not the leg -- it is the bottom of the rack.
Was this the Marrs method or was it just one idea Duane had among many?











I seem to recall that Mullen has something a little different? I might be wrong.
And it wouldn't surprise me at all if MSA has something else going on. They've excelled at rethinking hardware connections.

I'd love to see other ideas that are in current use or are no longer with us.

[Jerry Overstreet]

I haven't quite figured how the Marrs method works, but it looks kind of similar to a Remington pedal steel I bought 30 yrs. ago.

The pedal bar was attached permanently to the leg inserts about 3 or 4 inches. So to attach and remove, you would open the clutches and pull the entire rack with stubs attached.

Solid attachment that way.

I'll see if I can find a photo. Here's an illustratio:

[Jon Light]

Here's a detail. You just pop this onto the leg.

[Jerry Overstreet]

I see. Thanks. Concerning the Mullen method, all the ones I've owned were 90s vintage and they all used the conventional method as in your first pic. They used a different type of clamp though. A chunk of aluminum instead of the plate.

They may have had another method in their earlier issues, I dunno.

[Gene Tani]

also Doug Earnest's method on Stage 1 and Encores, drill hole thru leg and put the securing bolt thru that, no sliding plate necessary.

[Jon Light]

Yes! Thank you. I've had my hands on two Encores. I knew I was forgetting something.

My first steel was a BMI in 1983 and no amount of tightening would keep the pedal bar from sliding up. Years later I ended up gluing some 300 grit sandpaper to the face side of the sliding piece. It works. Some people might object to the abuse of the leg surface. I'm much more interested in stability.
As a beginner, I was not aware of the problem but I was certainly puzzled by how the pedals were sometimes high off the floor and sometimes they were scraping it. An unnecessary and unfortunate problem. I hate tightening the wing nut on that slider as much as it sometimes needs to be tightened.

[John Drury]

This Marrs is in my shop right now. I love the idea. The rack sits on the floor. The legs stand inside of the rack, fully bottomed out. That rubber foot is not the leg -- it is the bottom of the rack.
Was this the Marrs method or was it just one idea Duane had among many?

Jon,

Duane was the first steel player I met when I came to town in 83, we became good friends and I hung out at his shop and saw a lot of cool ideas and inventions that he came up with. He once told me that he invented the Pack-A-Seat as he called it. I have never heard anyone dispute that.

I was there the day that his Dad kicked the cat food can across the floor and Duane heard the noise it made and that led to the Cat Can Guitar!

My Marrs came with that set up on the pedal bar, he used that method on a lot of guitars.

Duane was such a cool guy! I really miss him!

This is a guitar that Duane and I built using his cabinet, endplates, and keyhead, a Bud changer, and Super Pro hex shaft parts. The neck was from an old rope inlay Madison guitar, and we used a Super Pro pedal rack and pedals. 5 X 5.

Fun project! Probably the only formica Pro-I in existence!

[Jon Light]

Thanks for that Duane Marrs talk. I've heard stories from a couple of people including Jeff Surratt. I believe I would have liked Duane. I get the impression that along with his great ideas (I think this pedal bar rig is brilliant) there were a lot of one-offs because he just had to try stuff. This Marrs I have here uses ball joints (the kind that the pedal rods hook up to) as the pushers on the reversing levers. It's ingenious. But Jeff says that Duane felt that they would be too fragile with too much chance of shearing off and they did not make the cut as a long term design. Which is another point in his favor -- having the integrity to reject one's own idea.

[John Drury]

Thanks for that Duane Marrs talk. I've heard stories from a couple of people including Jeff Surratt. I believe I would have liked Duane. I get the impression that along with his great ideas (I think this pedal bar rig is brilliant) there were a lot of one-offs because he just had to try stuff. This Marrs I have here uses ball joints (the kind that the pedal rods hook up to) as the pushers on the reversing levers. It's ingenious. But Jeff says that Duane felt that they would be too fragile with too much chance of shearing off and they did not make the cut as a long term design. Which is another point in his favor -- having the integrity to reject one's own idea.

If I'm not mistaken, Jeff worked with Duane on the Marrs Guitars before he started building the SHOW~PRO guitars. I know they were very close friends.

Jeff Surratt makes the Rolls-Royce of pedal steel guitars, in my opinion the SHOW~PRO's are second to none.

[Andrew Goulet]

On my Marlen, the bolt goes through the pedal bar and then through a hole in the leg. It's pretty solid. I can't imagine it shifting. Maybe the bolt would shear off one day from years and years of stomping?

[Jon Light]

On my Marlen, the bolt goes through the pedal bar and then through a hole in the leg. It's pretty solid. I can't imagine it shifting. Maybe the bolt would shear off one day from years and years of stomping?

Yep, like the Encore mentioned above.
I used to associate that bolt-thru design with cheaper student guitars and always figured that the hole alignment would be a problem and nuisance but my experience with the Encores in my shop changed my mind.
I'm totally good with it now.

.

[Lee Baucum]

On my Marlen, the bolt goes through the pedal bar and then through a hole in the leg. It's pretty solid. I can't imagine it shifting. Maybe the bolt would shear off one day from years and years of stomping?

The only...only...complaint I remember reading about this method is the fact that you have to completely remove the wingnut. That gives you the opportunity to lose the wingnut, misplace it, let it slip through a crack in the floor of the stage, etc...

Keep a bag of extra wingnuts handy!

[Jon Light]

The only...only...complaint I remember reading about this method is the fact that you have to completely remove the wingnut. That gives you the opportunity to lose the wingnut, misplace it, let it slip through a crack in the floor of the stage, etc...

Keep a bag of extra wingnuts handy!

When I helped a local friend buy his Encore and helped get him going, the very first lesson I gave him was "see this thing? As soon as you pull the pedal bar off, put. the. nut. back. on."
(and buy a couple of extras).

Yep -- that's what the slats on an outdoor deck are there for. For nuts and stuff to fall between.

[Sonny Jenkins]

My MSA has a pressure like activated piece that just pulls across the leg,,has a spring to adjust tension,,mine is pretty tight for these old arthritic fingers. The bar is wedged pretty tight between the rubber tip and the clutch. Kinda like getting the fulcrum point on vise grips.

[Pete Burak]

I like that Bolt-thru-the-leg method.
I have considered mod-ing my Sierra Session to be like that.
I don't want there to be any slippage or looseness in any direction.
I saw a nice Carriage Bolt that would be good (and look good), I think.
But yes it requires a fastener of some type on the other side.

[Al Evans]

I don't think anybody's mentioned the current MSA pedal bar connection, which is quick, precise, and absolutely consistent (like many other things on the guitar). The pedal bar fits into a specific space on the leg, and an over-center clamping mechanism locks it positively in place.

https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/086802 ... 8fa1ac.jpg

--Al Evans

[Pete Burak]

I don't think anybody's mentioned the current MSA pedal bar connection, which is quick, precise, and absolutely consistent (like many other things on the guitar). The pedal bar fits into a specific space on the leg, and an over-center clamping mechanism locks it positively in place.

https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/086802 ... 8fa1ac.jpg

--Al Evans

I like that style also, but I fear that over the course of the years of playing pedals it would work loose.

[Sonny Jenkins]

Al, that's what I was trying to describe, guess I wasn't using the right terminology,,LOL.

Pete,,it's adjustable,,can be loosed or tightened.

[Bobby D. Jones]

I used to gig a 1974 MSA that used the hole drilled through the leg with bolt and wing nut attachment.

Carried a little bag in my seat with about 4 extra wing nuts. If a nut fell and went into a dark corner on the stage. I just grabbed an extra 1 out of the bag and set the guitar up. Sometimes I found it later, Some times the Gremlin got to keep it.

[Jon Light]

....... Some times the Gremlin got to keep it.

Gotta feed the gremlins!

[Bill Bassett]

I hated the odd clamp thing on the Sierra Olympic so I simply drilled holes in the legs and affixed bolts and use wing nuts. Much easier.

[Stu Schulman]

New Desert Rose attachment

[Dan Kelly]

Here is the pedal bar connection on the Ross Shafer Sierra...

[Marty Broussard]

Does anyone remember the old Fender 1000 leg configuration and the metal plate that turned on a fulcrum point? It was fairly unique.

[Richard Sinkler]

I prefer the sliding plate version over the bolt through the leg. A couple of reasons why.

My first 2 guitars were ZBs. They used the bolt through the leg. On both guitars, after putting the wingnut on one side, I accidently let go of the pedal bar at the other leg. The pedal bar went swinging like a door opening. It severely bent the bolt on the leg I already had the wing nut on. It was a real bitch to repair.

Too easy to lose those wing nuts. Been there done that too many times.