Flying with Zum Encore

Rick Contino · From: Brattleboro, Vermont

Does anyone know if you can carry one of these on a plane in the case?

Thanks!

Rick
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Shobud "The Professional" D-10, Stage One S-10, National "New Yorker," NV400

Thomas Stone · From: San Francisco

I can tell you that the case measures 33-3/4" L x 9" H x 8-1/2" D and it comes in at just under 50 lbs in the case.

Gene Tani · From: Pac NW

You can check your airline's specific provisions for instruments on their website, call and ask and get the name of hte Dept that provided the answer and print webpage to take with you to airport (but probably most of their people will be baffled by a description of 50 pound guitar in case).

Also would help if you could locate a set of legs the right length to borrow at your destination, lighten the load a lot. (or mail legs in advance).
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Ben Waligoske · From: Denver, CO

Carrying on is gonna be nearly impossible, but I flew many times with my Encore checked in a well padded SKB case. Worked great, and just under the overweight baggage charges. Southwest is also definitely your friend for their bag policy and general attitude towards instruments...

Patrick Timmins · From: Seattle

I've had good luck with Alaska Airlines as well. The Pilot on a recent flight out of L.A. (a little over a year ago) let me put a single 10 that weighted 60# in the case, up in the overhead. Got a Zum encore just before Christmas specifically for travel. Looking forward to traveling again. Very Happy

The Zum should be easy to travel with.

Here is the FAA final rule on musicians traveling with their instruments.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/Musical%20instruments_FR_final%20rule.pdf

Read it & print it out incase anyone at the gate tries to argue with you. A lot of airline employees don't know these rules and sometimes we have to educate them. Once I was told an instrument would have to go below with the strollers and other large items (full flight). It wound out totally fine and my instrument was waiting for me when I got off the plane with the baby strollers. No additional charge for checked bag either. I'm sure the baggage guy wasn't happy carrying it up the stairs to the passenger ramp.
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Microphones, Recording, and lots of pedal steel guitars!

Rick Contino · From: Brattleboro, Vermont

Ok! Thanks for the helpful info. I will definitely print out this rule and study it.
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Shobud "The Professional" D-10, Stage One S-10, National "New Yorker," NV400

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

Be forewarned that even with a printout of that policy plus negotiations that the Musicians Union has done with the airlines, it’s still pretty much at their whim. I’d be ready to gate check it if they won’t let it in the cabin. That means a sturdy but not heavy case (under 50lbs unless you are ready to pay big overweight fees) and a very secure packing job. And a little prayer.
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Danelectro, Evans, Fender, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I agree. Some of the airline employees are real 'Jobsworths'.

Be prepared that, on any day and despite the 'rules', you may encounter an awkward check-in clerk or gate-person. There really isn't time to argue the toss with them and, in any case, most of them don't care whether you actually make your flight or not.

In recent years, and probably because of my age, I find I'm less willing to enter into these mini-war-zones with a much-loved instrument.

I recently, however, had no choice but to fly with my 1952 000-21 (my most cherished guitar) from London to Miami. The flight was nearly empty and the check-in clerk told me that the guitar would 'probably be okay to go on-board'. At the gate things were quite stress-free but the friendly agent, eyeing the Martin's soft case, warned me that 'things have tightened up' and that, in future, I should always use its hard-case. He said that, on full flights, all instruments are being put in the hold.

Cautionary words! I no longer anticipate work-related transatlantic travel and Covid seems to have curtailed my domestic playing schedule too. Should I get another long-running show to play, it's going to have to be within range of me and my car.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Boo Bernstein · From: Los Angeles, CA

Several years back, I was doing a gig where I was flying at least four times a month -- sometimes more. Most of the flights were to Mexico (I was working with a Latin artist). I used a few different smaller "fly" steels including an Encore. For the first few years, I was using different cases and would check the steel; I got it down to less than 50 lbs otherwise the overage costs would have been prohibitive. Of course, the problem was what everyone faces -- would the instrument get there in once piece; would it get there at all without going missing; etc.

I finally decided to try a different tactic -- I had a soft case made and began carrying it on the plane ... after all, the guitarists carried their axes on the plane. In reality, the steel took up less length and space than the guitars ... but because it was rectangular, it drew more attention from the airlines. I can't tell you how many "discussions" I had with airline people, but, thankfully, I was always successful ... until one time! The airline was absolutely refusing to allow me to take the steel on the plane ... it had to be checked in the hold. Given the fact that it was in a soft case, I was pretty sure it would not reappear in one piece. The band leader finally appealed to one of the managers who "made an exception this one time." After that, I went back to checking my steel; I couldn't take that chance again.

Currently, I use an SKB case made for either an electric guitar or a rifle and I've cut out heavy foam for the steel to fit in. It has wheels and is very strong ... and weighs in just under 50 lbs with the Encore. When I have a moment, I'll take a photo and post it.

All of this said, in the end, it has to do with the flight attendants and the people from the airline. It doesn't matter what the "rules" are ... they have the ultimate "say-so" and if you get someone who is not in a good mood, you really don't have much recourse.

Patrick Timmins · From: Seattle

Traveling with instruments is stressful. Before the more recent ruling, I was almost always allowed to store a regular guitar or electric bass in the garment closet. More recently, they seem to want keep that space for first class and sometimes the pilots garment bags.

If possible, call the airline a day or two before, let them know that you need to bring your "professional instrument" and want to make sure that their gate agents are aware and have been trained to 14 CFR Part 251.3. You might get passed around to a few reps.

A couple of years ago, I wound up talking to the airlines representative about music for over an hour. She had come from a family of performers as well. When I got to the gate early to make sure I could store my instrument, they had been notified of my odd shaped instrument and let me board first to get my instrument stored in the garment closet.

Another time, I mentioned being able to store my instrument in the garment closet and the airline rep let me upgrade to 1st class for $40 to make sure there would be space available for the instrument when I boarded.

Just like performing; show up early, smile, be polite, be professional. If that fails, pull out the printed rule and ask to speak to a manager or someone who has been trained up on the the Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) which are rules prescribed by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) governing all aviation activities in the United States. The FARs are part of Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). Stay polite.

The key portion of the CFR title 14 document is:
§ 251.3 Small musical instruments as
carry-on baggage.
Each covered carrier shall permit a
passenger to carry a violin, guitar, or
other small musical instrument in the
aircraft cabin, without charging the
passenger a fee in addition to any
standard fee that carrier may require for
comparable carry-on baggage, if:
(a) The instrument can be stowed
safely in a suitable baggage
compartment in the aircraft cabin or
under a passenger seat, in accordance
with the requirements for carriage of
carry-on baggage or cargo established by
the FAA; and
(b) There is space for such stowage at
the time the passenger boards the
aircraft.

The Zum Encore will fit nicely in the overhead or a garment closet.

A large instrument is something you may have to buy another seat ticket for, say a Cello, or double bass.

Just be thankful you don't play double bass or worse...... I complained about hauling my upright 3/4 bass all over town to my grandmother once.... She said, try that with a pedal harp in Chicago in 1935. Grandma was a badass. Very Happy

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Microphones, Recording, and lots of pedal steel guitars!

Rick Contino · From: Brattleboro, Vermont

Wow! This is great! I think I will try carrying on and see what happens. I don't have a scale - does anyone know how much the Encore weighs in the factory case off the top of their head?
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Shobud "The Professional" D-10, Stage One S-10, National "New Yorker," NV400

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

Please let us know how things turn out!
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Danelectro, Evans, Fender, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Patrick Timmins · From: Seattle

4&5 along with the detachable wrist pad, mine is at 46 lbs. Not sure how accurate my scale is.... Even if it is a loaded flight and it has to go with the baby strollers, it should be fine in the current cases that Doug supplies with the Encores. I pretty much dread checking any musical instrument after seeing a friends Gretsch White Falcon completely destroyed while in an overweight ATA case.
Bad baggage handlers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU6F12S6q48
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Microphones, Recording, and lots of pedal steel guitars!

Ben Waligoske · From: Denver, CO

The biggest problem with the cases the Encores come with is, although they are sturdy... the exposed latches... it's not out of the question for a rogue piece of baggage or etc. to flip a latch, and that's no good. For that reason, I like using the SKB or similar stuff where you can use TSA locks/latches to help prevent wonton issues...

Bill Cunningham · From: Atlanta, Ga. USA

I have never tried to carry on a steel but have probably carried my Peavey Cirrus USA bass on more than a dozen times. I always fly Delta. (Hey I live in Atlanta Laughing

).

Only once did I have to argue but most often the boarding flight attendant looks at the gig bag and says “let me put that in the closet up front here”.

YMMV.
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA

Patrick Timmins · From: Seattle

Yeah, that describes every instrument case I have that is not an ATA case. But my ATA cases are too heavy and too big for airlines these days.
Ben, looks like you have some Emmons as well. Do the SKB cases fit the Emmons, or just the Encore? What SKB case model number are you using, and does it go over the 62" max combined dimensions?

I've got a converted Emmons loafer down to just under 39 lbs. and the original case is trashed.

Oversized sur-charges are getting crazy expensive if you go over 62" for checked luggage even if it's under 50 lbs.
Alaska is $100
United and Delta are $200
United, overweight (50-70 lbs) and over sized is $335.00 for checked baggage. If it is over 70 lbs, it would cost $435.00 Whoa!

For me to take a ZB D-11 (just under 100 lbs in the slightly over 64" case) anywhere on United or Delta, it would be $870.00 round trip just for the PSG. It would probably be cheaper to just buy a seat for the guitar at that point. I have a friend that will do that for double bass sometimes. Even my Fender 400 is over size and over weight in the original case.

As for the latches, I have had these luggage straps for years to prevent a case from falling open. Good for the tour van/bus as well.

Looks like they make TSA approved lockable luggage straps now as well.

Man, I am really looking forward to traveling again after the lock down stuff.
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Microphones, Recording, and lots of pedal steel guitars!

Patrick Timmins · From: Seattle

Just to get back to the OP.

I've flown at least 3 times with a Sierra Session S10 on the right at 60 lbs in the case. I was told to put it in the overhead by a pilot once and the other times it was stored in a garment closet up front. It is very heavy to lug around the airport, but OK as a carry on with Alaska and Southwest Airlines. Dims are: 7.5" x 17" x 34.5"
I just got the Zum encore specifically for travel. I haven't flown with it yet but intend to carry on. Dims of Zum Encore case are: 9" x 9.5" x 33.5". Under 50 lbs and room for some skivvies.

If the Sierra was fine as a carry on, the Zum should be no problem.
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Microphones, Recording, and lots of pedal steel guitars!

Rick Contino · From: Brattleboro, Vermont

3/3 flights I carried it on!

2 flights were on American and 1 was Jet Blue. I bought tickets that gave me better position in the boarding process. Before each flight I chatted up the gate a personnel and most seemed sympathetic to my plight. One even gave me the wink to board super early with the people who needed special attention. The gist of it seems to be first come first serve on the overhead compartments. The case fit fine overhead even on the “small” planes.

Thanks for the help everyone!

My one last bit of advice is to bring a collapsible cart. Even though the encore is “light” it gets heavier the further you have to carry it.
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Shobud "The Professional" D-10, Stage One S-10, National "New Yorker," NV400

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