String 3 Sustain & Volume, E9 tuning

[Fred Treece]

How common is it for string 3 to have less (maybe 25-30%) volume and sustain as all the other strings? This is a new set of strings on a Carter S12 with a GeorgeL E-66. If you don’t have this anomaly, do you attribute it to strings, guitar, pickup, amp settings, technique, or what?

[Ricky Davis]

I attribute it to "String maker and Gauge"...
Ricky

[Erv Niehaus]

The best tone I've ever gotten on the 3rd string is with Live Steel Strings.
Erv

[Dan Kelly]

It seems to me that each string can have it's own volume level. I really did not pay much attention to this and probably just subconsciously adjusted my attack accordingly.

I recently received a Telonics X-10 pick-up. The process of leveling each string volume was a real eye opener.

Basically, there are two magnetic poles (set screw adjustments) for each string. Raising a given string's pole adjustments equally raises a given string's volume. The goal is to adjust all the strings' volumes for balance.

After string volume balance is achieved, the varying heights of the poles show which strings needed more volume and which needed less.

And yes; the 3rd string needed a volume increase... at least on my PSG, given my personal preferences. YMMV

[Rick Myrland]

It’s a combination of both: Live Steel strings and a Telonics pickup: doesn’t get any better than that. (Undoubtedly someone will mention technique—true, but why not start from a position of best advantage?)

[Tucker Jackson]

How common is it for string 3 to have less (maybe 25-30%) volume and sustain as all the other strings?

Common!

It seems wrong, but... maybe it isn't. What I mean by that is I tried to fix the weak 3rd by getting a pickup with adjustable pole peices. I was, in fact, successful increasing the volume of that string. But it just stuck out like a sore thumb. It didn't blend, and it didn't sound like the thousands of pedal steels I heard before.

It turns out the characteristic sound of a pedal steel is with a third string that's clearly weaker than the other treble strings.

So, don't overcorrect... maybe just go to a slightly larger gauge (.0115 or .012) and call it good?

[Fred Treece]

Thanks, everybody. Some very helpful and insightful responses here. Good to know I’m not crazy or going quite that deaf. I put on a new NYXL .115, not much difference. But, as Tucker suggests, maybe looking for something drastic is not quite right. I was indeed considering a new pickup, and the Telonics looks very appealing. I think I’ll sit on that idea awhile.

[Pete Burak]

As a quick experiment, You could put an 11 in the String-6 position and see if the low volume follows the string.
That would rule out the string-3 pole-piece/pickup.

[b0b]

Try .012 if your guitar can take it.

[Fred Treece]

More good ideas, thanks Pete & b0b.

[Jon Voth]

Just a simpleton here, but just thinking-

The higher the string the less sustain? Physics should dictate that.

But volume? Higher notes should be louder (less energy is needed to move a reed, string, column of air-etc.)

Grab a chord, the highest string should be loudest (what you want) but would die out first if you held it out for a long time.

Just the nature of physics.

[Fred Treece]

Jon, I have read conflicting statements regarding a guitar’s sustain and volume based solely on string characteristics. Higher tension = longer/shorter sustain, higher pitch = more/less attack volume. As if that weren't enough, I think it is also a generally accepted fact that many other physical properties of the instrument’s construction determine the final result. I didn't really intend to get into any of that with my post; just wanted to focus on the glaring example of string 3 (.0110 - .0115 gauge) being out of balance in both categories with all the other strings in a standard E9 psg set.

[Pete Burak]

Is it one of those pickups where you can't see the pole pieces?
Grrrrrrr.

[Fred Treece]

Its a GeorgeL, Pete. All capped off with plastic.

[Tucker Jackson]

I mentioned it was a good idea to not over-hype the 3rd string with a pickup with adjustable pole pieces... yes, but I will say that I LOVE adjusting the volume of most of the other strings. On one guitar, I have a Tonaligner with those adjustable poles, and I've done a lot of work getting the volume of the other strings to be more even and it doesn't sound unnatural.

In my experience, it's just the 3rd string that's super touchy if it's boosted too much because it 'crosses over' pretty quickly into a bad place. Probably because it's so thin-and-high that it really starts cutting through the mix.

It's funny because when I bought the pickup, it was the 3rd string I was most interested in messing with -- but after experimenting, I ended up messing with everything else in a big way and only boosted the 3rd a smidge.

[Bob Hoffnar]

I had the same problem with the 3rd string on my Carter's. I solved it by selling the Carter's. The steels I owned didn't ring even. I never had that problem again once I moved on. I think Carter got better over the years though. I had a couple of the first ones.