HELP! My E´s are killing me!

[David Jørgensen]

Hi everybody,

I play a Sierra Session S10, a lovely and great sounding guitar.
For some reason outside of my knowledge, the LKL and LKR as well as my C pedal all started returning sharp (C pedal and F lever) or flat (Eb lever), and it is driving me absolutely bonkers to the point of not wanting to play.
I have changed the strings, NYXL as usual. I have also read the over/under tuning post. But nothing works.

Any ideas? Im dying to get back into my practice routine, but my ear CANNOT take the sharps and flats anymore and I find myself ignoring it and playing 6-string instead.

Any ideas or helping thought are much appreciated!

- David

[richard burton]

Has the winter weather caused the cross-shafts to get too tight ? Check that you have some end-to-end movement in the cross-shafts

[K Maul]

You may be experiencing “over-tuning”. Do a search here for that term to find solutions.

[Lee Baucum]

You may be experiencing “over-tuning”. Do a search here for that term to find solutions.

Looks like he has already done that.

"I have also read the over/under tuning post. But nothing works."

[Tony Prior]

start here:

back out all of the tuning nuts for each raise/ lower at the changer end. Don't forget the C pedal 4th string. Check your tuning with a TUNER @ 440. Now put them back one at a time

Start with the 4th string raise on the C pedal. check it

then the E raise lever - check it

then the lowers

More often than not its the C Pedal 4th string adjust causing some grief or something is hung up, like a string ball end stuck down below.

[Dave Magram]

Have you checked your roller-nuts to make sure they are moving freely?

Years ago, I followed some very bad advice and used the "Dry Tri-Flow" for bicycles that contains paraffin and is sold in bike shops. The wax clogged up the close tolerances on the roller-nuts and the high strings, including the E 4th string would not return to pitch consistently.

I had to take off all the strings and use a solvent to clean the "Dry Tri-Flow" out of the roller-nuts and axle!

The "Tri-Flow Superior Lubricant" sold in hardware stores is fine--it has no paraffin in it.

Try taking off the E string and see if the roller-nut spins easily.

- Dave

[Bill Ferguson]

I suspect that Dave may be right. These pesky little rollers can cause more problems than anything.

Since both knees and the C pedal are having problems, I doubt that it is an over tuning issue. Besides, this is evidently not a new guitar so I would assume that the owner has not been tinkering with all the pulls. IMHO

[Rob Fenton]

I had a similar problem on one guitar and it was due to friction between the pull rods of the 2 different raises on string 4. One ran immediately over the other for a fair distance to the changer and they were binding at times not allowing the finger to return all the way.

It developed over time but I don't know why. I suppose I could have lubed it somehow but instead I tweaked the setup, moving one of the rods.

It could be something like that?
Best of luck! Hope you can get it sorted.

[Lane Gray]

First, troubleshooting is called for.
Is the problem in the changer or the pulltrain?
Take your tuning wrench and push on the rods, both raise and lower, both 4 and 8. See if they return to the stop bar (reliably on the E). Note: pushing on the rods only works as a diagnostic tool if your guitar has comb-style bellcranks, which pretty much means Sierra and early Zums (barrel-tuned Buds, as well).
If the changer is the problem (unlikely, IMO), I'd take a can of Triflow (or the duPont equivalent) and spray it down the blades of the scissors, flushing the plates and the pivot points. The carrier acts as cleaning solvents and it leaves a PTFE film.
Without seeing the guitar, I'm inclined to think that there's not quite enough slack when the pulls are at rest. Do the levers travel a little bit before the pull starts changing the pitch?
I'd start with checking if the levers have a "return stop", controlling where they rest (not all guitars do, and I don't remember if Sierra did). If so, back those off a titch.
If they don't, then adjust the travel stop, making each lever travel more, like a good thirty cents past D# and F. Then back off the tuning, so you will now have the slack you need.
Something might be binding. Somebody might have lubricated the Delrin bushings on the crossrods, causing binding (it's slightly oleoscopic, swelling as it takes up the oil).
If the shafts offer resistance to motion, remove them, clean the shaft ends well,
There are many reasons a machine isn't working exactly right, and you probably only have one or two problems.

[Bill Ferguson]

To complete what I started saying.

It sounds like you have had this guitar and played it for a while and that the problem just started. I don't disagree with anything that has been suggested as all are possibilities.

It's simple enough to lift the 4th string off the roller and see if the roller is moving freely.

Also if it's only on the 4th string and started all of a sudden. You mentioned strings. There could be a ball end of a broken string fallen down in the changer. That will cause a world of problems.

Then reason I don't think that it is overtuning, is that it sounds like the steel has been working fine before.

Let us know.

[David Jørgensen]

The steel has been working fine up until now - any nonfuctionality has ultimately shown itself as being down to user error.

I have not yet tried seeing if the roller nut is the issue, or tried much of the other fine advice yet - however, my C pedal returns fine when the E lever is deactivated. I will get some hours in tonight after the kids are put to bed.

I have, however, been practising using my 2nd string in place for my Eb lower - which is an interesting excercise in timbre and tone.

Thanks for all your excellent advice, thre accumulated knowledge on here is staggering!

David