Is Light Right?

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 13 Feb 2021 12:47 pm

Thoughts and observations concerning lighter weight gear.

Is this a trend for the entire pedal steel guitar community or just among the largely senior population of this forum?

Seasoned players who have played D10s for years abandoning them for singles, tried and true Peavey and other dedicated steel amps for lunchbox and mini amps, 12 in. speakers for 15s, conventional magnets for neos?

Are these just geezr pleezrs or is this a general population trend toward smaller and lighter gear?

I'm currently out of pedal steels due to economics, but never will I be happy with a single neck guitar unless it's a 12 or 14 Universal provided I'm ever able to restock.

Even if I never play another event or with anybody where I have the opportunity to use a C neck, I'll always want it for my own enjoyment.

I dunno if we are kidding ourselves that the new neo stuff really sounds as good as our old conventional Lansings and BW speakers or are we just "settling" as it's close enough?

Are modern 12 in. speakers really that much better than they were years ago? Can a single 12 really deliver a satisfactory tonal range like a 15 can? Are tastes trending toward a different tone flavor through the electronics? Marketing for selling new products?

The times, they are a changing, or is it us as we age and lose strength and patience?

What do you think?

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 13 Feb 2021 1:19 pm

Amp-wise, my take is that the new generation of lightweight amps are 'close enough'.

I was suprised to find (while I was doing my taxes last week) that I've been relying on Roland 80XL amps since 2013! Before that happened, IF you had suggested to me that anything less than a 15" speaker would pass muster as a steel-amp, I'd have called you crazy.

In my case it's worked because every venue I've played has been some sort of auditorium where all that's required from me is a signal to the front-of-house sound-desk. That tiny Roland (well, okay - I had three in case of a failure, but that's never happened) has been my monitor and my pal through thick-and-thin. Okay, I admit that, work-wise, the last year has been pretty quiet (understatement of the month!), but I have never found those amps very much of a compromise.

Oh, but I AM an old geezer now, so a Session 500 is almost certainly a couple of bridges-too-far.

I draw the line, though, at abandoning my D-10!

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 13 Feb 2021 3:21 pm

At 64, Iâ€™m a geezer beginner on steel. I upgraded from S10 to S12 just recently, so I did the opposite of downsizing in the guitar department, with no intention of going back.

As far as amps and speakers, I never was a big fan of hauling my Fender Twin around, even in my guitarzan 30â€™s. The little Mesa Boogie MkII I had weighed 80 pounds. For the last 10 years, my amp has been a Boss GT10 modeler plugged into a 20-pound Tech-21 powered speaker, and itâ€™s some of the best, cleanest, most versatile tone I ever had and I wish it had been there when I started playing 50 years ago.

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 13 Feb 2021 4:42 pm

All electronics gear improves as time passes. I'm 72 and want to lighten my load, but I'm finding the new lighter weight gear is capable of equal or better power and tone. I still have my 1501 BW's. Then I bought Eminence EPS-15c and found it's response equal to the 1501. Then tried an EPS-12 and found it had better bottom end response than it's big brother 15C. Having said this, I've had each upgraded magnet version of the 1501 plus deep and shallow basket. They all sounded different from each other in matching cabinets. The old gear was good in it's time, but it's hard to sell because of it's weight. I currently have a Quilter 201 and using a Boss 59 Bassman pedal to EQ it. I have a Carbon Copy delay pedal and Hall Of Fame reverb pedal. Tuner is a programmable Sonic Research ST-200 Strobe Tuner pedal. All of it connected together in a 16X14X4 utility case weighing under 12 lbs. The 12C speaker and cabinet probably weights another 12 lbs. Plenty of power output. Local musicians tell me it's the best sound I've ever had. I agree.
Conclusion: Lighter can be better. I can carry my amp gear in one hand and speaker in the other easily. The next heaviest gear is my seat. Then the boat anchor U-12 MSA. It all takes up much less space in my van.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 13 Feb 2021 5:39 pm

I geezered out in 2005 when the Pod XT came out, havenâ€™t carried an amp since unless itâ€™s a jam session, actually my favorite power now is a JBL self powered speaker/monitor, Half the weight of a Nashville 400 and has a great tone, I can plug a four channel mixer into it and have tele and steel and dobro and nylon guitar, less weight, work smart.

Ron Shalita · Post by **Ron Shalita** » 13 Feb 2021 5:41 pm

I play through a different amp everyday, or should I say that I rotate all 6 of my amps everyday my favorite one is the one I am playing right now ...they all sound great to my old ringing ears..

Larry Dering · Post by **Larry Dering** » 13 Feb 2021 7:25 pm

I also play on every amp I own, but the gig amps have changed. A quilter 101 mini head and a TC Furlong 12 speaker in a open back cab. Weights nothing. Boss RV3 for reverb and delay. I can also use a Pod HD and drive most powered cabs to my tastes. The Twin Reverbs and Peavey steel amps are gathering dust in my collection. At 71 it was past time to lighten the load.

Sandy Inglis · Post by **Sandy Inglis** » 14 Feb 2021 12:34 am

I have just finished a 6Hr Charity Fundraiser playing only Pedal Steel in the band in which I used the Peavey Nashville 1000 with a 15inch BW Neo. I love the sound on the Steel. I can't get the same sound from my Valve Guitar amp or possibly a powered speaker?
I also use a lot of modern light-weight powered speakers for PA and monitors. I was skeptical at first of them but now I love then (especially the weight!).
My Zum Steel has a wheeled case and I use a sack barrow to move the amp and pack-a-seat etc. (I'm nearly 70).
I have just started to use a small mixer for the other instruments and would happily put them all through a modern powered speaker although I would prefer the N1000.
New Zealand has had a small outbreak of covid and tonight they are raising the alert level for 3 days to contain it. If they can't it may affect future gigs.
Keep safe
Sandy

Wesley Medlen · Post by **Wesley Medlen** » 14 Feb 2021 3:56 am

I'm not a gifted player but I dropped down to a Boss Katana 100. I play mostly in a cowboy church band. My guitar is a Justice Jr. I am limited to lifting 5 lbs. Thank god I've got a wonderful wife and stepson. I will be 85 4/5/21. Getting old is so much fun. Wes

Don R Brown · Post by **Don R Brown** » 14 Feb 2021 5:46 am

Wes, sounds like you are a very lively 84+! Good for you for staying young and I bet the fact you keep active is what is driving you on. We don't slow down because we get old, we get old because we slow down!

Carl Williams · Post by **Carl Williams** » 14 Feb 2021 5:56 am

Is Light Right? ðŸ¤” Yes especially after double-hernia surgery ...ðŸ˜³.

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 14 Feb 2021 9:28 am

I thought I was immune to physical problems until last year when I developed a trigger finger on my right middle finger from hauling my gear (a D10 and amp and stool up a flight of stairs almost every week. That gave me a wake up call to start lightening my gear going with a small s10. Mind you, with Covid that pretty well negated every carrying problem I had.

Scott Denniston · Post by **Scott Denniston** » 14 Feb 2021 10:02 am

I think that the level modeling is at today it makes a lot less difference if you're using a 12" speaker. If the amp was modeled with the appropriate speaker that's what comes out, or close to it. It doesn't matter that the Tonemaster Twin is 12s and no tubes because it's the model or profile that's being broadcast. Same with the Kemper profiler. I'm using a powered Yamaha DSR 112 FRFR pa speaker with it. You'd think it would sound cold or something but it's merely broadcasting a profile of a Little Walter with whatever Impulse Response of speaker I choose to load with it. Of course the Peavey 112 steel amp is not a model or profile at all but a lot of guys just like the way it sounds. Wasn't my cup-o-tea.
All that said...I've got tons of pretty heavy gear I don't want to haul around anymore. I probably would though if it weren't for the improved modeling technology.

Ben Lawson · Post by **Ben Lawson** » 14 Feb 2021 11:10 am

I had a Peavey 1-12 for a while. My bandmates felt it didn't sound like my Nashville 400 and I agreed. I also had an Emmons S10 with 3 & 4 but it didn't work for me either. I went back to my D10 P/P with 9 & 7 and the 400. I don't mind the weight if I get to sound that my 75 year old ears like. I also noticed that I got more exercise sticking with the bigger stuff. I'm going through prostate cancer treatments now and the Doc said it wasn't an issue if I carried the equipment.

Dale Rottacker · Post by **Dale Rottacker** » 14 Feb 2021 11:51 am

I guess I'm in some good company here, if like the rest of you I too consider myself a "Geezer"...

The one thing I don't think I EVER hear is, "I went from a D10 - to an S10, to Improve my sound. After 40+ maybe 45 years of Double necks I bought an S10, for the "novelty" of a lighter weight guitar, though I don't play out enough to really matter. The guitar played great, sounded great, but I could NOT adjust to having my arms hang off in space, and sold it about a year later.

When it comes to amps, my first was a Fender Twin, and I just NEVER was happy with what I got from it. From then till now, I've had a Session 400 Limited, a couple Session 500's (Ears Loved, Back Ached) a Nashville 400, and a 76 Session 400, which next to the 500 seemed light. Like many others, in my HEAD, I always felt you HAD to have a 15" Speaker. So one day I asked Buck Reid his thoughts as he used a 112, and I sat 3 feet from him for an hour while he tried a 115 and I though sounded great. So I asked him, (and please jump in Buck if I misstate what I thought I was hearing from you) being the Monster C6th player with all those FAT strings, why he used a 12" instead of a 15" speaker? His reply was that to get to the GOOD Tone of the 15" you have to push them much harder than you do with a 12. That with the 12", you're in the Good Stuff right from the get go. I've talked at length with Travis Toy about this as well, who also uses a 12"... I believe Paul and Lloyd ALSO are 12" users and I don't hear anyone faulting any of those guys for how they sound. Johnny Cox is another great example who uses a Telonic's SuperTwin as well as a Quilter 202 Combo with a 12"... and he's play a 12 string D13 tuning and sounding tremendous.

So I too ended up with a Telonic's SuperTwin and popped a couple of TT12's in it... Love it... I also about a month ago bought a Quilter 202 Combo with the TT12 in it, Love it too... I also think I'm going to get the Quilter extension Cab for a 15" cause I've got a couple TT15's here... How can I go wrong there?

So all that said, I too have joined the camp of converts from the 15" to the 12" and have never been happier... Not only with the Sound I'm getting, but the weight ain't a bad thing either.

Like Roger, I'll stick with the D10's even though I don't play enough C6th to matter, I still have some time left to play more of it.

Scott Denniston · Post by **Scott Denniston** » 14 Feb 2021 11:52 am

I also noticed that I got more exercise sticking with the bigger stuff.

Good point Ben!
It's not like we're getting too much exercise.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 14 Feb 2021 12:04 pm

Always, except when I'm not.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 14 Feb 2021 1:57 pm

I guess I am in this group too, Going light. I am 77 years old, And today Feb. 14 at 7pm is my 2nd anniversary of a Heart attack, Feb 18th will be my heart surgery 2nd anniversary.
I at one time gigged a MSA S10, With a Nashville 400, Or Peavey Tube Fex, And 200 watt amp. in in a rack box and a cabinet with a 15" Black widow speaker and my pack seat.

Before Covid-19 hit, I had an every Friday Night house band gig, and 1 Saturday night gig a month at Sagebrush. Since I live alone, I have to load and unload at the house myself.
My gig guitar now is a GFI S12, An Evans AH 200 seat hang on amp.head, Bubba Samara Delay and a Birch cabinet with a Eminence EPS 15 and my pack seat.
Lighter equipment and hand truck has made it much easier to load in and out from a gig.

Dang, We have not played a gig since March 13, 2020

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 14 Feb 2021 4:00 pm

Jon Light wrote:Always, except when I'm not.

At first, I thought this topic was about you!

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 14 Feb 2021 4:37 pm

Lee Baucum wrote:
Jon Light wrote:Always, except when I'm not.
At first, I thought this topic was about you!

Yeah, poor topic description.ðŸ˜³ We know Jon's right!

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 15 Feb 2021 4:54 am

Except when I'm not.

Others have gone in the direction of this answer--- I'm at an age and time of my life where THE BEST is a luxury. And a conceit. I am capable, if I'm not trying to impress someone with my "uncompromising commitment to quality", of allowing that something that maybe is not the ultimate, best sounding rig there ever was, is easily good enough.

I was recently A/B'ing my 23 lb. Quilter 12" combo with a few other <strike>boat anchors</strike> bigger rigs -- a Steel King, a Session 400 Limited, a Webb -- all 15" cabs. All of them are simply a LOT heavier than I want to haul. Breaking them into 2-pieces means more pieces to haul. I LOVE my gigging rig.
This A/B session reminded me that there IS (to my ears) a certain something to the sound of the air coming from a big cab, a big cone. There is a certain depth of tone in these amps that in the Quilter feels 'psycho-acoustic' -- something you think you hear until you refresh your ears with the real thing.

But my premise stands -- is my lightweight super-portable rig good enough? Simply, yes. Is it good? Yes, I like it. Is there anything better if diminishing physical abilities do not matter or if you have a roadie? I'll say yes. Do I care if someone questions 'why are you using that? You can play through a rack full of MacIntosh amplifiers into a wall of JBLs!' I'll either say yes, it is a nice day or I'll have the bouncer deal with him.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 15 Feb 2021 5:06 am

Exactly right, Jon.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 15 Feb 2021 5:12 am

Thats right. My days of moving pianos are over.
Could you imagine hauling a B3 around?
Now THATS dedication.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 15 Feb 2021 5:14 am

Just to add -- I don't mean to sound aggressive and hope my response is not taken that way.

At first I was a bit depressed when I was reminded that the rig I've been gigging for the last 2 years comes up a bit short of the fatness of the big rigs. I've actually avoided the comparison tests for this reason. But...it is what it is and I am satisfied with my choices.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 15 Feb 2021 8:20 am

FWIW, I don't mean to disparage those who are taking steps to lighten up....I'm a geezer too so I know too well the burden of toting large and heavy gear.

To repeat and further answer my own question, I want a D10 or a 12/14 uni. Can I get by with a single 10? Of course. After I sold my MCI, I played a 6 string Cougar for a few events. Yessir, I can definitely make music on it, but I missed my changes, strings etc. Would I want to do that on a permanent basis? No.

I'm one of the dinosaurs. I have a NV400 split rig, but I only used it when I had to.

My main rigs are rack mount MosValve/Tube Works and MosValve/Roland/Boss rigs. The big rig is 6 spaces with 7 pcs. of gear. It weighs a ton but it sounds wonderful...then I have 2 satellite speakers to load plus a big seat and a possibles bag.

I always tell my buds when the time comes that I can't handle all that, I'm giving it up completely. I admit it seems daunting at the end of the night looking at that pile, considering loading it in and then out again when I get home, but for me, I just won't compromise for something I'm not happy with.

It sounds to me like a few of you feel this way too.

More input is welcome though.

So, did you trade in your D10 for a single for convenience sake?

Are you downsizing to be able to keep playing?

If you were 20 yrs. younger, would you?...or are you really pleased with the lighter gear and would still use it even if weight and mass of the older stuff weren't an issue? Do you really like it or are you compromising? I guess that's the question I'm asking.

Whatever the reason, I'm glad that oldsters are still able to play the instrument they love. I guess that's all that matters.

After more than a year waiting out this virus thing, I suppose many of us haven't been able to address this question recently anyway.