What the weight on the different D-10`s?

Dag Wolf · Post by **Dag Wolf** » 12 Mar 2003 1:44 am

I would like to know how heavy your D-10 steel are.
I have a D-10 Zum, a Franklin and a JCH
The JCH are a heavier steel than the Zum and the Franklin are a bit lighter than the Zum.

Now, the case on some steels are just too heavy to use on local gigs. If I fly to the US I prefer to use my flight case -only problem it`s over 20 pounds - just the case.

I would really like a light weight steel and case.
I noticed that Carter are pretty light. How are the Williams, Fessenden and so on. How about the MSA classic SS (super light)?

Dag

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 12 Mar 2003 8:12 am

Dag,
I'm looking into getting a fly guitar myself. A single neck would work for the main band I'm touring with.

What have any of you guys come up with ?

Bob

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 12 Mar 2003 10:42 am

GFIs have got to be one of the lightest pedal steels made. Ask Bobbe Seymour at Steel Guitar Nashville about the weight thing, he knows them all.

Bobby Snell · Post by **Bobby Snell** » 12 Mar 2003 1:58 pm

My Williams D10 (keys) is 36 lbs w/o case.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 12 Mar 2003 2:03 pm

GFI. Best sounding light weight guitar out there. Call Bobbe Seymour 615-822-5555. Have you tried putting wheels on your steel case? I couldn't move my ZB or Sho-Bud without them It makes transporting them a breeze and totally negates the weight issue.

Marc Weller · Post by **Marc Weller** » 12 Mar 2003 3:32 pm

My Sho Bud Fingertip is only 85 lbs. in the case.

MW

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 12 Mar 2003 4:59 pm

Dag, it will be very hard to find a guitar that weighs less than the Franklin.My Fessenden weighed as much as my JCH.I can't comment on the Williams or MSA SS.

Chuck Martin · Post by **Chuck Martin** » 12 Mar 2003 5:46 pm

Dag,

The MSA Classic SS is about 40 lbs without the case. The new D-10 Millenium is advertised as only 32 lbs without the case.

Chuck

Dag Wolf · Post by **Dag Wolf** » 12 Mar 2003 6:22 pm

Thanks for the inputs! Keep them coming.

The Franklin I have are a SD10 and are so light.
I will weigh my steels the next time I pack them down and post it here.

I know that ShoBud LDG`s body are pretty light but the pedal bar are very heavy.

I`ve seen a few Franklins were the inner legs have been cut off.

There`s no reason for the inne legs to be that long so I guess that about all regular pedal steels one can get the weight down by cutting the inner leg down. If you do it`s probalby wise to leave some more than you need if one decide to sell and the new buyer want to raise the steel an inch or two.

Vintage steels may drop in value if you cut the legs.

Dag

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 12 Mar 2003 9:47 pm

My MSA "Universal" S12 8/5 wood lacquer weighs 39 lbs out of the case. My D10 Carter weighed 36 Lbs out of the case and my S10 Carter weighed 28 lbs out of the case.They were 26 lbs but they have solid cross rods instead of hollow and adds 2 lbs to the S10. The GFI S12 7/5 weighed 31 lbs out of the case. The Williams S12 weighed 30 lbs out of the case.

The new MSA Millenium D10 weighs 32 lbs out of the case and has a great sound.

That disproves the old theory that it has to be heavy to sound good.....al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 12 March 2003 at 09:49 PM.]

Dag Wolf · Post by **Dag Wolf** » 13 Mar 2003 2:42 am

My SD-10 Franklin 4 knee 4 foot are 23,5 kg which should equals about 48 pounds in the case.
The case are 9 kg - about 18-19 pounds which make the steel around 30 pounds.

If the new D-10 MSA are 32 pounds with 4 more foot pedals and one more knee lever - I must say thats pretty, pretty good

My case are not a typical heavy one but I wish they could come up with a light weight case. I think 9 - 10 pounds would be great.

My Zum 1984 model D-10 8 ped 9 knee are 30kg - 62lbs in the original case. Case is 9kg - 18-19 lbs which makes the steel 21kg - 43-44lbs.

Do I have my math right?

Are the Dell cases light weight?

Dag[This message was edited by Dag Wolf on 13 March 2003 at 04:47 AM.]

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 13 Mar 2003 6:59 am

After extensive experimentation, we at MSA have concluded that guitars weighing less than 30 pounds have the possibility of beginning to compromise stability.

If one agrees with our findings, the final conclusion is that the long standing weigh issue relative to MSA guitars has been resolved by the use of CCT, and now the possibility of further reducing the weight issue could be improved only by the case manufacturers.[This message was edited by Reece Anderson on 13 March 2003 at 07:00 AM.]

Recluse · Post by **Recluse** » 13 Mar 2003 8:02 am

I bet there is an engineer or two with an opinion on this.

With stability becoming a factor in light weight guitars, has any one tried having the back legs on a compound angle, pointing out as well as back. It might look a little funny but a couple of inches on each leg should add a great deal of lateral stability. Then the weight would only be a big factor on the vertical levers.
Other than appearence, why not?
I am onsidering doing this on an Excel rebuild so I would like to know if it has been tried and rejected in the past.

Thanks in advance:
Steve Bailey

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 13 Mar 2003 8:08 am

It works on non-pedal steels, so it seems like it should work. Go for it!

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 13 Mar 2003 12:43 pm

Dag,
1 kilo equals 0.45359 pounds (US) so I think those steels you mentioned will actually be a bit more (in pounds)

Joe H.

Dag Wolf · Post by **Dag Wolf** » 13 Mar 2003 1:24 pm

Joe, I was afraid someone noticed it......

Recluse · Post by **Recluse** » 13 Mar 2003 5:19 pm

Oops! 1 kilo = 2.2046 lb. or
1 lb.= .4536 kilo

Joe must have the Day setup.

My Millennium weighs about 2 1/4 stone.

Steve Bailey

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 14 Mar 2003 10:02 am

Recluse, at less than 30 pounds the vertical knee levers are the issue. In order to operate vertical knee levers in the heat of battle, one must be able to engage it without worrying if the guitar will lift off the ground. The Millennium S12 is 30 pounds with an 8&5 pedal configuration. S10 and S12 with fewer pedals are also maintained at 30 pounds. Side to side stability is not an issue with the Millennium. My guitar is a D10 9&8 and weighs 39 pounds out of case.

------------------
The Steel Dr.
Johnny Cox P.S.D.
MSA Customer Service
www.msapedalsteels.com
www.thetimejumpers.com

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 14 Mar 2003 10:12 am

OOOps! Sorry about that, folks. Of course it is the other way round: 1 pound = 0.45359 kilos. But then I was never that good at maths...

Joe H.

Dag Wolf · Post by **Dag Wolf** » 14 Mar 2003 11:44 am

Johnny this is interesting.

Your new MSA are pretty loaded. 39lbs out of the case you state.

After getting my figures hopefully right my 1984 Zum D-10, 8 foot and 9 knees are 21kg which equals 46lbs.

If this is right that makes my Zum only 7.lbs or 3,15kg more than the new MSA.

Does this sound right??

I agree with Maurice that the case would be the place to look for improvement about the weight issue.
Looks like the case itself are about 1/3 of the weight - and that too much, IMHO.

Dag

Sage · Post by **Sage** » 18 Mar 2003 12:30 pm

The one and only Harmos pedal steel (S13) weighs 25 lbs. out of the case. Since the body weighs less than a pound, most of the weight is down low. Having a wider stance also helps with stability. Robert Randolph has not complained about it dancing around- but just to be sure I encouraged him to put a little loop of gaffer's tape under each rubber foot- it does help. Some early pictures of the prototype can be seen on our website. I'll get some pictures of the final version with RR up when I can.
T. Sage Harmos
Harmos Steel Guitars http://www.harmosmusic.com

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 Mar 2003 5:22 pm

My Sho-Bud Pro II is shipping at 85lbs

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 21 Jun 2006 11:17 am

My Sho-Bud Pro 1 S10 with 6/5 Weighs 34 lbs out of the case all setup to play. It doesn't move....al

------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 21 Jun 2006 11:44 am

Hi Dag ,

Zum D-10 8x8 31 kg in case
Williams D-10 8x7 27 kg in case
Williams keyless S-12 7x5 21 kg in case

Guess which one I fly with ?

------------------
Olli Haavisto,
Finland

Willis Vanderberg · Post by **Willis Vanderberg** » 21 Jun 2006 1:22 pm

SKB makes a drum trap case that works very well for a D-10.It has wheels on it and weighs about 10 pounds. If you are flying you can put the pedal board and legs in your luggage and the guitar in the overhead bin. just make sure you are not sitting under it.for all other purposes there is plenty of room for everything in the case.
I think they are about $ 169.00 at Muscians Friend and the other stores.

Old Bud