Advice for getting that 60s sound

Liam Sullins · From: Dayton, Ohio

I've been posting a lot on here and I really enjoy it. Anyways, with just starting out I'd like to focus with getting the sound that's in my head. I want to sound and play like a steel player from the 60s. Any advice anyone could give would be great. I do enjoy the new stuff but my heart is with classic country.

Thanks!
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Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Do you have other people to play with who share your vision?
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Liam Sullins · From: Dayton, Ohio

Patrick Thornhill · From: Austin Texas, USA

Are you familiar with The Country Side of Harmonica Sam? Theyâ€™re from Sweden, of all places, and do a pretty dead-on 60â€™s sound. My initial response to how to get the sound was going to be â€œpure nickel strings and a Fender Princetonâ€, and it looks like thatâ€™s not too far off: https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=316879&sid=bf5e40909ca865311a4620205ded5de7

Douglas Schuch · From: Valencia, Philippines

There are many ideas on how to capture that sound. One, of course, is to own 60's equipment, but not everyone wants to go that route (I'm not sure I would continue to be able to play if I had to lug around the very heavy steels and amps from back then!). Here are some ideas to try:

First, and foremost, pick down close to the pickups, not up over the fretboard. Try both and you will hear the sound difference immediately. Second, amp selection can have a big influence. You can certainly go with a vintage Fender or other vintage amp like the steelers of that era used. But modern amps can also give you that tone. Stereo Steels, not exactly a completely modern amp, and getting harder to find now that GD has stopped making them, certainly can get a very traditional sound. So can the new Quilter Tone Block 202 (it even has a "Vintage" EQ switch). I was not able to get that tone with a Milkman "The Amp." I never tried using an external EQ stomp box to scoop the mids as I had a Stereo Steel, and then bought a Quilter 202 and was happy.

With whatever amp you are using, you want the "scooped mids" of the classic Fender amps from that era, I.E., turn the midrange down below half typically (every amp will vary, of course), and boost the bass and treble.

Pickups can affect tone as well, of course. I find I can get the best vintage tone using Alumitones, and still get a more modern tone when I want one. I have compared them directly on my MSA with quick-change pickups to 705's, X-10's, and Tone Aligners. A "hot" (low resistance) single coil pickup should also give you the vintage tone.

Having said all of that, listen to Paul F's demo of his signature speaker - he demos very modern tones and very classic tones, all on the same equipment. Demonstrating the tone is determined by the player more than anything else:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sFVbgU3TqE&t=292s
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Liam Sullins · From: Dayton, Ohio

Liam Sullins · From: Dayton, Ohio

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Yes, it's as much about licks as about pickups and amps. I believe you have to capture the style as well as the sound. Instruments back then were fairly primitive with maybe just one lever, so I'd be trying to limit myself to what was historically feasible.

It's a fascinating project which will involve hours of listening to old records. I wish I could join you, but I'm up to my neck in trying to learn jazz chords on the universal! Good luck Smile

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Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Liam Sullins · From: Dayton, Ohio

John D Miller · From: Ohio, USA

Hello Liam, I am up here in Cleveland. Good to see a fellow Buckeye playing PSG.

I believe you are pretty much there with gear to get a solid 60's sound.

PSG: 66-67 Sho Bud crossover that's been converted to a single neck 3x3.

Amp: Vibroverb (1964)

I play an Emmons Legrande 2 D-10 thru a Vibroverb (bigger venues '65 Twin Custom "15) and it sounds great.

However, recently got a Fender 800 PSG (10 string 5 pedals, trying to add knee levers as we speak). Hard to date these buggers but they did not roll out Candy Apple Red until around '66. When I married the two together (64 VV and 66 Fender 800) MAN OH LIVE WHAT A SOUND. It was really incredible. No boxes, stomp pedals, compressors etc. Just cable volume pedal to amp (a little reverb of course). I really felt like I fell into a time machine and was back in the 1965-1966 era.

So I think you are good to go and just work on the licks and songs from that era. Hopefully you can find like minded companions and play out or record etc.

Mark Perrodin · From: Tucson Arizona, USA

John Miller,

I think you’re on to something with your observation about old steel guitars
and old amps. I love the way my ‘62 Fender 400 sounds through my 1962
Fender Pro amp. Just beautiful together. I also wonder if anyone has an
opinion about the varied copedents that players were using before tunings
became more standardized. I find it fascinating to study the ‘60’s players
choices. Red Rhodes and Sneaky Pete come to mind as well as Pete Drake
and Lloyd. All different and all great. Could their tunings have been as integral
to their sound as their actual hardware. I tend to think so.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Hi, Liam. The guys here are steering you right. The 60's sound is technique and gear.

In terms of gear, I think of it as a low-wound single-coil pickup into a pot pedal into a tube amp that's EQ'd pretty bright. Lots of spring reverb, but no other effects. You're going for a very treble-heavy tone compared to the modern sound.

As Douglas pointed out, move your picking hand to the right and attack the strings close to the pickup for added brightness. And then study the masters by transcribing their parts to understand their approach and phrasing. A lot of guys in that era spent a lot of time playing in a staccato style, with some very clipped palm blocking going on... we don't hear that Pop-Pop-Pop thing as much these days. But it's cool.

Steve Leal · From: Orange CA, USA

Using a passive volume pedal will make a big difference as well. Once I switched from Hilton digital pedal to a Goodrich L120, my tone sounded more like what I was used to hearing on older albums.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Most everything that's needed has been mentioned. The tone part is pretty easy, but what hasn't been mentioned is playing simple! An authentic "old sound" is as much about the style as it is about the sound. You have to think "old" to replicate the style. You have to get into the player's head, and what was happening musically at the time. That also means not having (or not using) modern pedal moves like raising 1 & 2, or lowering 5 & 6. All you really need is A, B, & C, plus the E raise and lower, and maybe the B-Bb lower. For example, dozens of players have thought that Mooney's sound was just in his equipment, tuning, and setup... but that's not really the case. It was the way he played that made him unique.

As a lead player once told me, "It takes a lot more than a Gretsch and a Standel to sound like Chet Atkins".

Rich Upright · From: Florida, USA

Sho-Bud guitar, Twin Reverb, and listen to "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" album, or NRPS. A lot.

That should help.
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Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

What Donny says about "thinking old" is what I was trying to say earlier but he's put it better.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Tom Quinn · Posted 13 Nov 2020 5:54 am

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Fender tube amps, old school pickup winding..

You do NOT need an old school steel, although it would help...

Remember, todays players want to use pickups wound like line transformers.. 20-22K is common, and then wonder why they can't get the 60's sound..
The pickups back then were MUCH lighter wound.
Get in touch with a good pickup builder, and have a single coil wound at 14K with a tap at 10 K..

Actually I used a Carter for years, wound at 9 and 12, and it was a wonderful vintage 60's sound, and other players complimented it for its "old school" sound.

I can assure you, that if you use an older Fender tube amp, with a pickup wound in that manner you WILL get the sound you seek.. Believe me, I have been doing it for 44 years...Todays guitars sound great, but in my opinion, the pickups commonly used are simply too powerful..bob
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Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

All great advice here...Remember though, all those old recordings sounded thin back then, even the vocals and such, so it wasen't just a bright steel guitar tone, Don Rich's guitar tone was nasely, nothing like the slick fat Brent Mason tone of today, not a lot of hi-fI engineering, more raw talent, ala Johnny Cash etc. Capturing the style of the pioneers will give you more mileage than the old equipment will.
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Dave Hepworth · From: West Yorkshire, UK

Hi I recently built a variable Z buffer unit to plug into the end plate jack.It has a tone control that alters the impedance.You can get very thin sounds at extreme settings and plugged into my valve Laney combo sounds very 60s.I pull out 800hz on my Boss ge7 as well.

Asa Brosius · Posted 13 Nov 2020 9:30 am

I'd suggest sharing some examples of the sound you have in mind- folks here will probably know the guitars amps reverbs even mics used- there's a lot of variation in 60's steel.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Seriously, though - I agree on lower-wind pickups and thinking in terms of a simpler setup. Just 'cause you have 8 pedals and 8 levers doesn't mean you have to use them all. A lot of moves can be executed with or without the extra hardware, but they can sound quite different, depending.

I also agree that one needs to distinguish between the various 60s pedal steel styles and players. Back then, the great steel players were not clones of each other in the slightest, and there is a ton to be learned from zooming in on each of them. Emmons, Mooney, Green, Day, Hughey, Kleinow, Charleton, Myrick, Brumley, Drake, Chalker, and on and on.

In the end, for me, absorbing any style requires extensive, constant, repeated (to the point of annoying everyone around me), and careful listening coupled with trying my hand at it, constantly making adjustments as I go. Honestly, there's a lifetime of work involved and I don't have enough time left to do everything I want by a very long shot.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

As part of your process I suggest that once you get in the ballpark with your gear and settings do not adjust or change anything for about a year. Spend all your practice time learning to play a few phrases exactly right. Then take those same phrases a learn to play them in a couple different places on the neck. Practice them until they are perfect. If you are playing along to a recording they will disappear into the track.

Keep in mind that how the steel sounds in those classic recordings is about context and musical role. For instance the Bakersfield sound is all about car radios in convertibles with the top down.

With all that I’m into period correct instruments. A fingertip sho bud or wrap around Emmons is an undeniable force !

It’s super fun stuff and gets better and better. Once you get to the place you are shooting for you will hear ten more things that are just out of reach.
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Bob

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