And you wonder why they don't cater to you? Of course, there is the chicken and egg issue, but I think if customers dealt with local stores more seriously, attitudes would be very different.
I think most people actually buy stuff online now. I used to own/run a smaller music store that focused more on vintage/used stuff, although we dealt some new lines like Martin, G&L, and others. We carried anything that local musicians asked for. This was the 90s, there was a point to doing this. But things have radically changed. Most of the guys that I know in the music store business now find that they're mostly used as a demo platform. Customers will frequently come in, take up a bunch of the owner's time, check out a bunch of guitars, amps, pedals, whatever, and then walk out without a word and get the item online, and then come in and expect the local dealer to make it right when something is screwed up and complain bitterly if they're told to go back to where they bought it.
The reason the big-box/chain stores took over most of what was left of brick-and-mortar is because musicians decided to go there instead of the smaller places. Of course, this isn't universal and there are some great smaller places. But most of the ones I see focus more on specialty markets and/or vintage/used instruments. The point is that especially vintage instruments are not a "commodity" - so they can apply the mottos: They Ain't Makin Em Any More and Go Find Another One.
How would you feel if I invited you to dinner and I ask you to let me search you when you left my home.
I really put up with their disrespect for a lot of years before that proverbial last straw when Stuart and I were on our way out of the store and they stopped Stuart at the door and insisted he let them look under the seat compartment in his walker. I had never seen them stop and search anyone including us for all the many many times we were in the store. To do that to someone you know very well means they really thought we could and had stolen something.
There was nothing but dust in that under the seat compartment.
one reason I had to close my shop. every picker in town comes plays every guitar in the store, rights down the model number of the one they like and go home and order it on line. So no I don't have a lot of respect for all you star nose pickers.
How would you feel if I invited you to dinner and I ask you to let me search you when you left my home.
Anybody I invite into my home for dinner - I either trust them or they're not gettin' in.
But a store open to the public is not a private home. I guess I've seen the other side of this too much. As far as theft goes - I've seen people try, and sometimes succeed, to steal stuff in the most startling ways. I've seen guys try to walk out with a mandolin under their winter coat - multiple times. One day I was approaching my buddy's guitar store from about 150-200 feet away, and this guy goes flying out the door with an electric guitar in his hand, sees me and takes off the other direction on foot. I believe (it's been a while) the cops reeled him in from a cruiser, but he had too much of a head start for us to catch him on foot. This was a local, not a big-chain, store.
Anyway - a lot of stores, and I think most big-chain stores of any kind, won't let you bring in anything that could hide anything large - backpacks, large bags, whatever - and they lock up anything of value that's small. Music stores usually have small stuff like pedals, tubes, and so on, under glass or put it in packaging large enough to make it harder to hide. I take it all with a grain of salt. Don't know what kind of store you were talking about, but that would be unusual for a real small store. But believe me - music stores, big and small, have theft issues, and I'm sure many can tell some pretty bizarre stories.
Tom - I know exactly what you're talking about. I sold my end of that shop 20 years ago because I could see the good times were over for good. But I still have good friends trying to make a go of it. It is maddening.
In the end, I think we're all the losers on this because it's just not worth it for the vast majority of small business owners, at least in the music biz, to carry much inventory. The solution to so-called "showrooming" small stores and then buying online is to simply close to the public except online, and perhaps by face-to-face appointment with serious buyers. And that's what a lot of the guys I know are doing. Or have done - the pandemic has accelerated this rapidly.
I went to a Guitar Center in Maryland, the guy asked me what I was looking for and I kinda jokingly asked Pedal Steel Guitar, he said "no we don't have one, but I have wanted one and I will get one", I came to the store about two weeks later and they had a Carter starter there.
Larry,No it was Scott at 6 string City on Spenard,I met him a long time ago When he worked in a pawn shop...over the years he developed a terrible twitch due to ???So we called his shop "Twichies"!
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952.
I don't personally have an issue with the large BOX stores, they serve a purpose. Even before the internet.
When I was a young lad, there were no local stores that had any gear other than a Hagstrom Guitar or Bass. And I'm talking "ONE". So we took the train ride from Westport Ct the NYC, 48th street, an hour journey. It became a regular event, a few times a month. But if you were more than a couple hrs from NYC that wasn't possible. More like impossible.
A large guitar store opened not too far from where I lived in Ct., Brian Guitars, I knew Brian, he was ahead of the curve, he invested, he became a dealer, Fender, Gibson. etc.. his staff was top notch. He was the first local store that became a BOX store, years later he sold to Sam Ash.
I worked a Freds Bramante's Daddys Junky Music store in Norwalk Ct,where it all began. Fred had a vision, like Brian above he recognized the "hole", the void. Daddys eventually became a BIG deal store in the region , Ct up to Boston.
These were not the typical local mom and pop thing, these guys recognized that to attract players, you needed more than one Hagstrom guitar and one Alamo amp. You needed risk and a bank loan.
The Mom and Pop stores,while they were important, almost created their own demise. Sadly. It was never about instruments, it was about being good in business and taking a risk. No risk, no reward.
I would have gladly bought my first Twin Reverb from the local store in Westport Ct, if they had one. But they didn't . I didn't want to hear "I can get it for you, it will take about 4 weeks" . I was an hr train ride away from Mannys in NYC, I can go to NYC today and be back late afternoon, WITH the Twin Reverb. Which I did.
That small store in Westport closed after being open maybe 2 or 3 years. The owners were nice, older, but they didn't see the big picture. They barely approved anyone coming in the store to try out the few guitars they had, if you didn't come in with a parent, they almost asked you to leave. All this while the Beatles and Stones were all over the radio and TV. The excitement a had begun. They didn't see it. We would go in the store ( our band) and look around, they looked at us like hoodlums. We were not customers, we were a gang , trouble makers, unsupervised kids. They asked us to leave on more than a few occasions.
The door was wide open for the BOX stores, full of inventory. It was the natural progression, evolution. When the BIG box stores opened up , everyone stopped going to NYC , guess what happened to them ? Mannys is now just a level piece of ground, I don't think there's even a building anymore.
So we now have where I am in Charlotte, 2 or 3 GC's , a Sam Ash and a few smaller well packed music stores,which are struggling. The big Box stores are now just extended arms of the Internet stores, same business, same corporate owners.
The only complaint that I have with the local big box stores is that some of the staff, not all, are just flat out amateurs, they are warm bodies that they call Sales Staff. Very uniformed , very little knowledge and apparently have no interest to become more knowledgeable. But maybe thats the sign of the times. I seriously doubt the that these younger folks called Sales Associates are going to make long term careers out of handing guitar cords to kids to try out a guitar. Once they hand someone a guitar cord they return to their Iphone .
I do frequent the local box stores every now and then and if I see something that sparks my interest I'll check it out, but I don't need a young Sale Associate to assist me. If they happen to offer assistance, I certainly accept.
My last larger purchase at GC was a used 08 Tele, ( late 2018) it was on the USED wall, on the other side of the store. I took it down and plugged it in, a young sales gal came over and asked if everything was ok, I said of course and thanked her. She asked me about the Tele, I said yeah it was on the Used Wall, she said..uhmm I never saw it. All I thought was wow, this is maybe one of the best Teles in the store, its USA, its $799 in mint condition, slick 9.5 radius maple neck, excellent frets, no wear, 4 way switch , hard case, etc... and she didn't even know it was in the store. This guitar could have sold 100 times. I bought the guitar, then sent it off to Forrest Lee Jr for a Bender system. It became my #1 gig guitar, and even today over my other favorite guitars its still the one I most likely will take to a gig.
I guess the point is the BOX store SALES clerks are not there for a career, they are there for a short period before they go off and do something else, like maybe work at or manage a Dunkin Donuts.
Last edited by Tony Prior on 19 Oct 2020 6:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 8 and Pro Tools 12
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 8 years
W. C. Edgar wrote:Guitar Centers are the worst of all.
Guitar centers are hit or miss, some have fantastic knowledgeable employees, some are like a walmart where no one gives a crap. This problem has gotten worse over time. The last GC I went in I had a surprising amount of knowledgeable employees. They might have just been entertained by me bringing my steel in to try out Fender amps.
Yeah, it is absolutely incredible how good some of the GC employees are, many I have encountered have studied music at Universities (that is a sad statement about job availability) or had played for famous performers (Buddy Church was one, who had played for George Jones), but they hire whoever walks in if they need somebody.
A great music store is located just before you get into Pigion forge Tenn. They have some of the best guitars you will find anywhere and will let you play them . I also seen a couple of Steels there and the largest collection of upright basses for sale.
The total absence of knowledge in the big music stores reminds me of a big supermarket I go to soemtimes (when I'm getting bored with the ones I usually frequent).
As the final item in my basket, a bunch of bananas was coming up to the check-out girl (high school age, I guess). She asks me with a bewildered look on her face: What are these called? I just shook my head in despair and walked away... Maybe a bit cruel, but some people need to learn the hard way.
Makes you wonder how kids today are brought up, and how they will cope in the real world...
Somebody who worked at GC told me that they started paying their "Sales Associates" a flat no-commission minimum wage right about the time they stopped the good deals.Haven't been to a "Big Box" store in quite awhile so I don't know if they still have THIS SIGN posted....
I agree with Donny Hinson, no respect for age. Plus-- virtually everything in a music store comes from overseas. Seems like everything went down hill since the Vietnam Draft.
There may be hope---the song says Time Changes Everything. It is supposed to be darkest before daylight. MAYBE
Its not just GC and younger aged folks, been to a Lowes or Home Depot lately ?
"May I help you find what are you looking for " ?
That line must be the first thing they teach Sales Associates 1 minute before they send them out on the floor.
Then you answer, I'm looking for a ...
Then comes line #2
"What are you using it for " ?
Then all bets are off
I certainly do not fault the people on the sales floor, they are all there working for varied reasons, they are mostly very nice people just trying to get thru the day. But the logic of management sending staff out onto the sale floor who may have zero skills related to the products in the store is just short of madness. These for the most part are stores where people with "HANDY SKILLS" are coming in looking for specific things to start or complete a project. Its not a grocery store.
Its kinda like GC, if you know what you are looking for and have knowledge, you can do ok. If you don't have advanced knowledge and someone with less knowledge than you assists you, well... good luck !
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 8 and Pro Tools 12
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 8 years
... But the logic of management sending staff out onto the sale floor who may have zero skills related to the products in the store is just short of madness. These for the most part are stores where people with "HANDY SKILLS" are coming in looking for specific things to start or complete a project. Its not a grocery store.
"Oh, yes sir...faucet washer. You'll find all the cleaning supplies in aisle 14."
True Tony, but I guess people gotta learn somewhere. Young people today can't learn because outside of a smartphone, they don't get much "hands-on" experience. They never had a wagon or milk-crate scooter. When the bike breaks, the parents just get them a new one. And there's little to fix on a car anymore. I'm continually amazed by the number of people that don't know or understand even basic mechanics.
Erv, also remember, change your clocks, change the air in your tires.
Back in the general direction of the topic, the small music shops - the smaller of ANY type of store - usually is run by and staffed with those who understand their business and the needs that drive customers in the door. They sell a service, even if that service is just getting you the right item. Many of the bigger chains just sell on the basis of lower cost. They often don't have staff who truly know their stuff.
Guitar Center is on the verge of filing for bankruptcy. Again. They missed a payment on $45 million this month. And according to the NY Times they are $1.3 billion in debt. That's a lot of telecasters.
They furloughed thousands of employees earlier this year. Apparently another business victim of coronavirus.
