Help with Emmon's LeGrande

[Dale Rivard]

I just recently purchased a 92 Emmon's Legrande. I was inspecting it and figuring out what parts I need to order to put my setup on it, when I noticed a problem with the E9th changer. 3 of the fingers on strings 3, 4 and 5 are not lined up and sticking out more than the others. The B pedal on the 3rd string is not even tunable. When I try to get it up to pitch, the changer finger pops and moves out of position. I dismantled a few things and found out there are substantial grooves worn in the stop plate(endplate). I believe this is causing my issue. Has anyone had this problem on their Emmon's LeGrande? And if so, how did you fix it, short of replacing the entire endplate? Thanks for any help you can offer.

[Bobby D. Jones]

If you remove the end plate, And take it to a good welder with a Heli-Arc set up, They should be able to fill those slots back to original form, May take a little filing and finishing to get it exact.
If it did not affect the tone of the guitar, A strip of stainless steel covering that area would protect it from damage in the future.
Good Luck in this repair job and back Happy Steelin.

[Tony Prior]

Those 3 notches are very bizarre, they look to have been almost "on purpose", they are too clean and exact, perfect. Very odd to me. It would probably take a hundred years of B pedal mashing to make even a small notch. That B pedal notch is really significant. I've personally taken a dozen Steels totally apart, I've never seen anything like this, any brand. Very strange. Who can say why.

Strings 3 and 6 get the exact same amount of B pedal movement, yet there is no notch on string 6, just what appears to be a wear mark, Strings 5 and 10 get the exact same A Pedal movement , yet no notch on string 10. Same with 4 and 8, no notch on 8. Maybe a C Pedal adjust ? Very odd. Unexplainable. Its almost like a previous owner was attempting to get more PITCH out of the Peds by adding more distance to the stops.

I concur with Bobby, just place a thin piece of stock over the notched area on the stop plate and call it a day. In the scheme of things its a fairly simple fix as odd as it appears. Metal strip , 3 self tapping screws, ( or tapped) both ends and center. Just be real careful not to break a self tapping screw head if you go that route.

If this was mine, I would drill and tap 3 screw holes. Tape everything to prevent metal filings and use a vacuum when drilling and tapping. Use #6 or #8 screws. Use the proper drill bit size accordingly. IF you can remove the endplate easily that would be preferred. I've done repairs on stuff much worse than this.


The changer fingers look pretty filthy, 1992 was a long time ago, perhaps take it apart and clean it. Bring it all back to ground zero !

Good luck, its a great Steel !

[Ray Mangrum]

Boy this is odd. I recently traded for a LegrandeII and decided to dismantle and refurbish where necessary. Anyway, I have the exact same thing. I thought it was wear, but now I'm not so sure after seeing yours. I had planned to put a 1/4" x 4" Stainless steel strip over this and screw it into place as mentioned in the comments. But now I'm wondering if this is the right fix. I agree they are precise and look like they might have been put there for a purpose. My guitar was not detuning and played excellent. I'm really interested if anyone else has or has seen this.

[Erv Niehaus]

It looks like that guitar was rode hard and put away wet too many times!
Erv

[Jerry Overstreet]

Those slits sure appear to be machined into that stop plate. I don't know much about these guitars or can factor a reason for that, but there must have been one since there are at least 2 with the same thing.

[Johnie King]

It was probably done in a effort to lower or raise more than a Emmons is design for.
maybe PM one the pro repair people ask them to take a look
But for sure you’re steel changer needs to be taken apart an cleaned ::::; one
that dirty will never work!!!

[Marty Broussard]

Folks,
I had a LeGrande SKH that did the same thing except the grooves were deeper. I contacted someone I considered to be knowledgeable on the Emmons guitars. He instructed me to have a small plate made and screw it to the existing casting so that all of the fingers stopped in their original positions. It didn’t effect the tone but it tuned up and stayed stable for the remainder of the time I owned it. That guitar was black and serial # 164L or 176L—I think—from around ‘85. It’s been a LONG time since I dealt with it. The slots were only present on the E9th neck. On the C6th only some slight wear was occurring.

There’s probably other threads on the forum about this. Btw, I have a Lashley LeGrande and no slots have developed on it.

My suggestion would be to contact Billy Knowles, Mike Cass, Clem Schmitz, Jack Strayhorn, or other reputable/knowledgeable Emmons guy and obtain the real scoop.

I hope that helps.

***edited based upon the comments provided by Billy, Jerry, and Jack.**

[Mike Holder]

If this work isn’t in your wheelhouse it could cause irreversible damage. Contact Billy Knowles, Lynn Stafford or Buck Reid etc. a builder / repairman with machining expertise to repair, replace, clean and polish the entire changer then you can put it back in? Probably faster in the long run and done properly the first time.

[Ray Mangrum]

I texted Billy and he says it's definitely wear. So I'm going with my original thought and that's screw a piece of staimless in there so that all the fingers come to the same point.

[Jerry Overstreet]

So is that integral to the aluminum endplate and not replaceable separately? Sure looks like it's all one piece. Seems odd that the stop plate wouldn't be steel.

Good luck with your fix.

[Lynn Stafford]

I texted Billy and he says it's definitely wear. So I'm going with my original thought and that's screw a piece of staimless in there so that all the fingers come to the same point.

I concur with Billy. I've been able to repair such wear by having a good welder fill the notches and resurfacing the edge. I've seen thin strips of stainless attached to the ledge on a few guitars that have been retrofitted in such a way. I think the best long term repair would be the latter one.

[Lee Baucum]

Do the fingers strike the stop with a sawing motion?

[Dale Rivard]

Thanks so much everyone for your advice and help. I do appreciate it a lot. I think I'm going to use the method of attaching a stainless steel strip. Sounds like it might be a permanent solution. The length and width are easy enough to determine. Just wondering, what should the thickness be?

[Jerry Roller]

The lower return springs were overtightened for a long time. I have seen that before. If the grooves are very shallow I file them out other wise I have them welded and dress them down. Don't overtighten the return springs.
There is a slight "saw" action takes place as was mentioned and tight springs cause the wear.
Jerry

[Dale Rivard]

Jerry, Thanks for the info on the lower return springs. When I get to the point of setting up the guitar, I'll make sure I (re)adjust them.

[Jack Strayhorn]

This is caused from wear because of a lack of lubrication. It has nothing to do with a lack of quality. Players beware that this is an area that should get attention when servicing your guitar. I fix this all the time using JB Weld.

[Jack Strayhorn]

Do not ruin the guitar and it's value by adding strips or placing material over the ledge. Just fill the gap in with some JB Weld and file the edge smooth.

[Tony Prior]

While I would certainly try JB weld as Jack suggests, I seriously doubt that a small SS strip will impede the value of the instrument. It's a permanent fix.

I have used JB Weld previously for many things and it is very good for filling or bonding, but keep in mind, this scenario would have the fingers continuously banging into and pushing against the JB Weld repair area's. it may wear again.


TRY it, what do you have to lose ?

[Jack Strayhorn]

During my 12 years as GM of the company the first thing I would have done to a guitar with a strip of anything in this area would have been to remove it!

[Dale Rivard]

Again, Thanks everyone for your help and advice on this. I do appreciate it very much.

[C Dixon]

deleted

[Mike Scaggs]

When Jack Strayhorn speaks, better listen. I know of NO greater experts on Emmons PSG's, than Jack and Billy Knowles.

Not to mention, two of the nicest persons you can find.

Praise Jesus for the Jack's and the Billy's, etc, in this world,

c.

+1

[Ross Shafer]

This is caused from wear because of a lack of lubrication.

Curious what would be lubed to prevent this...the stop bar itself? Seems like a difficult place for lube to hang around for long. Even a thick grease would be pushed aside easily by the finger contact, unless a whole lot was covering the whole area. Other than a bit of stray oil migrating from the changer mech, I've never seen a steel with any appreciable amount of lube in this area and have definitely never seen any grease in this area.

Thanks for any info you can share.

[J Fletcher]

As the owner of an Emmons Le Grande II of the same vintage as Dale's , I am also curious as to what needs to be lubricated to prevent wear to the stop bar . Any advice appreciated.
Jerry