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Topic: Old Sano amp-worth fixing? |
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 31 May 2020 6:57 am |
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I inherited an old ‘50’s Sano, 2-el34’s and 1-15” Utah alnico, tremolo but no verb. It powers up but no signal. The speaker works and sounds quite good with my Fender pro. It appears to be in a homemade cabinet.
I’ve read reviews, good and bad, but would like your opinions...one review from a guitarist said this particular model was loud and clean and won’t “break up”...maybe a good steel rig!
Thanks
Dave
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Francisco Castillo
From:
Easter Island, Chile
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Posted 31 May 2020 5:03 pm
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HI.
I love those projects.
You can unveil a real gem.... or waste your bucks in a useless piece of junk.
If i was you, i'd bet on it. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 31 May 2020 5:39 pm
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Usually, EL-34 power tubes breakup up early and have a robust rock sound as in Marshall amps. I have a Mesa Boogie amp with EL-34 power tubes and the pedal steel sounds sterile playing through it.
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I survived the sixties! |
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Marty Holmes
From:
Magnolia ,TX USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2020 9:34 am
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| Look at the musicman hd 130 super high headroom with EL34's and a excellent pedal steel amp so go figure just my 2cents.Marty |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2020 10:12 am
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I will have it repaired at some point...and if it's not good for steel I can use it for guitar! It was free...
thanks
dz
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2020 10:17 am
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Sano amps were made primarily for accordians so they tend to sound pretty clean. I've got a version of your amp that uses two 6BQ5's instead of the EL34s. Most appear to be cathode biased but with high plate voltage. I used mine as a house amp for an open-mic I helped with a few years back. It worked great for my beginner lap steel playing. The Jackson Pollack grill cloth was a plus. It was missing the Sano script logo so I stuck half of an Alfa Romeo badge in its place.  Non-original knobs. Keep 'em guessing.
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2020 1:31 pm
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I think this is the one I have but someone added a 1/4" input marked "reverb" on mine
 ..maybe an effects loop?
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2020 5:03 pm
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| A lot of them did have reverb, usually with a knob that was smaller than the volume/tone knobs. Does your amp have rca jacks for a reverb tank? I wish mine was a two channel like the one you pictured. That's the main reason I quit using it. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2020 5:41 pm
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I don’t think it has rca jacks for reverb
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2020 8:38 pm
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it powers up???!!
half your battle is already won! open it up and start tinkering! |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2020 5:35 pm
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Dave, I have a similar amp.
The original Tolex was black. People say they are clean but mine has nice grit. Not as loud as my 59 baseman reissue. Way better than my vintage 47 amp.
Sano made amps for guiletti and others. Mine has the 15” Utah. Tremolo and no reverb. 6sj7 preamp tubes. EL34s. The input is for two sides of an accordion and might need to be altered for mono guitar input. Try backing the cord out just a bit and see if you get a sound . Mine has a volume control just before the first preamp so you can cut the input and drive the power tubes. I’m still chasing a buzz but it is my favorite amp. If the two amps are similar, bring yours by and I’ll check it out for basic stuff and you can play through mine and see if it is worth your money to send it to a real tech. We can figure out to do social distance for safety.
Steve |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2020 6:29 pm
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Thanks Steve. Haven’t seen you forever!
Yeah our amps are similar but mine does have a guitar channel. I may mess with the preamp section....for some reason I think the volume pot is fried. I resoldered a loose wire but got nothing. When I turn the volume knob I get very few pops and cracKyle’s. The guy I got it from had it working for a moment....
Cheers
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2020 6:58 pm
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If you get it going, you can sub 6l6s for the EL34s and it should be a bit brighter. I like it the way it is and the Utah sounds good,. I subbed a JiBL130 and didn’t like it for that amp. If you have three preamp tubes, like mine, all three need to be good since it uses all three at the same time because of the stereo thing. My mono input goes through all three tubes. If you can’t get a sound out of it, try running a CD player into the input of the power amp which will give you a better idea of where the problem is. That should be the rca input on the power amp.
Also, try the accordion input, the bass and treble are volume controls for two channels in left and right. They aren’t tone controls and you will get no sound out of that without turning those up.
Does it have two volume knobs.? Is that your amp in the picture. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2020 8:55 pm
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Not my amp in the photo. I’ll take a few and post tomorrow...
Great idea about plugging the CD player into the power section might be loud?
Yes I tested the Utah speaker with another amp and it really sounds quite good. Is it 8 or 16 ohm?
Thanks
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2020 2:05 pm
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Dave,
I have a CD player with volume control so I use that. I guess you could use a cell phone if you have that adapter, or worst case straight off a record player might have a little signal to hear but not hurt anything.
I think the speaker is 8 ohm but I don't remember. The coaxial type cord going from the master volume should go to the phase inverter and because the chord moves alot you might have an issue as it solders to that pot or to the RCA type connection to the power amp. I guess it could be a lot of things, I'm just throwing out some ideas. Try to send a picture of the preamp section and I can compare things in mine to yours to try to find the issue. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2020 8:08 pm
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Picture file
Upside down😕
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2020 8:15 pm
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I just got it working 😳
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2020 5:23 am
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What'd you find? Those rectangular orange/brown JB caps are not original to the amp. They're probably good caps but the lead dress is not as careful as Sano's builders. Particularly the one on the top left, which has a lead that is precariously close to the 220K resistor it's next to. Probably the same person that installed the mysterious Reverb jack. Definitely not octal preamp tubes like Steve's amp. Sano used a lot of 12AU7's which, I'm told, tend toward microphonics more than the other 12A series nine pin tubes.
You do know about potentially lethal tube amp voltages, even with the amp unplugged, right? Requires that the filter caps be discharged before you start digging around. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, best send it to your amp guy. Is that still Skip Simmons? |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2020 6:08 am
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| Quote: |
| You do know about potentially lethal tube amp voltages, even with the amp unplugged, right? |
Absolutely, and I still use Skip occasionally. He's working on an old Magnatone for me as we speak...maybe 
I'm inexperienced but sometimes I am able to find stupid simple problems.
The history of this amp is that my friends' neighbor gave it to him. It already had the mystery reverb jack. My friend had Bill Krinard (creator of Two Rock Amps) repair it. It worked for a minute...now it's mine.
I think possibly the RCA jack that connects the power section to the preamp section is faulty and needs resoldering....or I'm embarrassed to say that possibly when I went to pick it and plugged it in to test it, we simply forgot to turn up a second volume knob. It has two channels. One for guitar and one that says instrument. under each is an unmarked knob and to the right is a big dial marked volume....I dunno but it works. I'll fix that rca plug and spray the pots this weekend.
Thanks everyone!
dz
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2020 12:51 pm
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Sounds like you found the individual volume control on the input that happens before the master volume. I normally dime the first volume knob and then back off just a tad.
When you reattached the RCA to the power amp, do not solder the coxial shield on both ends, it can only be on one end and on mine that it as the power amp......otherwise you will be adding a ground loop.
That one is different from mine in that I have different preamp tubes. I hope you like the sound of it. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2020 9:55 pm
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Had to replace the speaker, when playing low notes it got flabby. Turns out the paper cone was so old and brittle it cracked. Put in a Jensen...yeah maybe an ok guitar amp but I can tell it’s too crunchy for steel....
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2020 10:31 am
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That's too bad that it won't work for steel. But I think you usually use twin reverb sized amps so that one isn't going to be that. I wonder if it's breaking up a bit earlier than it should? There could be a number of issues such as those multi section caps might be causing a problem due to age. That can show up on the low end. The problem is that those are $45 a piece in parts alone and you have three. Someone could add caps under it but it's tight in the power supply area already. Who knows if the replaced coupling caps might have altered the tone.
It would be pretty expensive to due the full go through so if the tone of the amp prior to break up isn't that great to you, then I would think leaving it alone would be best. At least it was free. I'm still surprise as I have 420 volts on the plates of my EL34s and I think that puts it's output at the higher end of two power tubed amps. Is yours less power than your deluxe? |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2020 12:43 pm
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It’s close to the Deluxe...I’m going to shelve this project for now...I actually have way too many amps and even when I’m gigging I don’t use them all....😄.
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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