Change Open E to Open G

[Jonathan Scherer]

Will the same strings work?

My National Dynamic is tuned in E, 013 017 024 32 42 56.

Is it possible to use those same strings, same guitar and switch to Open G?

My first thought is no.

[Jack Hanson]

You could probably get by with a low-bass G, but high-bass (dobro) G would be iffy. John Ely's String Gauge Guide is a good resource:

https://www.hawaiiansteel.com/graphics/ ... _chart.pdf

[Fred]

A lot of dobro sets are heavier. They’re pretty tight on the 25” scale of a dobro. What you have should work on the National. If you’re talking about high bass G (lo to hi G B D G B D) the worst that will happen is you’ll pop one bringing it up to pitch. That’s more likely to happen if the strings are old.

[Brian Evans]

I had a set similar to that on my National Dynamic (23" scale) for high G Dobro. I went with thicker treble strings, I think .014 .018. The .056 is more suited to low G tuning but it worked for high G for a few days as a test. The way I thought of it is, the .056 is about what a guitar with a 25" scale uses for an E note, so lose 2" off the scale and are at the second fret so you are only tuning up a semi-tone to get to the third fret. Ish...

[Jonathan Scherer]

Thanks for the advice.
To be honest , I do not understand John Elysian string gauge chart well enough.
But will keep pondering it

[Dave Mudgett]

The answer to this question depends on which G tuning you want.

The strings you have are fine for Vestapol Open E - i.e., low-to-high: E B E G# B E. Is that what you're doing now? If that's the case, and you want to tune to standard Dobro G: G B D G B D, there should not be big problem - it may not be optimal, but shouldn't be a big deal raising a 56 wound up to G, and the rest are the same pitch or lowered. Or if you want Robert Johnson Open G: D G D G B D, that is not problem either. Lots of guitarists change between those tunings - RJ Open G might feel a bit slack, but that shouldn't be a huge issue with 13-56 strings.

But I think you'll run into trouble raising E Vestapol up 3 semi-tones to G Vestapol with those strings. I sometimes tune slide guitars up to that tuning, and I have not had good luck with strings that heavy unless the scale length is very short.

Personally, I try to get pretty balanced string tension and use a string tension chart plus the string tension equation to figure out gauges. But using John Ely's string chart is very simple and effective. Just look down the chart for the notes you want, and it gives you a range of string gauges suitable for it. I think it's about right for a 24" scale-length guitar. It's possible to go outside those ranges some, but much below it, strings get floppy; much above it, strings are very tight, and way above it, you get into the tension region where they tend to break.

[Jonathan Scherer]

Thanks Dave,

I am using E B E G# B E low to high.

This question is coming up for me because I am thinking of signing up for Bruce Boutons Rockin Lap Steel course.

I assume he uses Dobro G .

I understand the gauge chart as far as string gauge ranges for specific notes but I have not been able to wrap my head completely around it.

The Dynamic is 23" scale.

FYI my Oahu is tuned in E6.

[Allan Revich]

Cindy Cashdollar thinks that a 56 will be just fine for high G dobro tuning. I’m currently using a 60 for my GBDFAD tuning, while waiting for my 56 strings to arrive.

http://cindycashdollar.com/tunings/

[Mark Eaton]

?????

Guys - .056w for the 6th string in high bass G (GBDGBD), is not only “fine” for a dobro or the typical electric lap steel with a beefy neck, whether you ask Cindy, Jerry Douglas, Rob Ickes or any other full time pro dobro player - it is the gauge that is included in probably 95% of all the dobro string sets which are available for purchase!

The 1st string 13 E tuned down to D is a little wimpy, but it will work. 16-17 is the typical 1st string for a dobro, and on my G tuned Asher lap steel, I use Bill’s string set and the 1st string is .015.

The 3rd string .024 is also kind of wimpy but it will still get you the G note. For 25” scale dobro the most popular gauge is .028w, but .026w also works well.

[Mark Eaton]

...and out of curiosity I just checked - my lap steel that I've had since I was a 10 year old steel guitar student back in the '60s is a Supro. It's another one that I've kept in Open G for many years but it doesn't get out much anymore because I have a really nice custom Asher Electro-Hawaiian that I use for high bass G tuning.

I just removed the black pickup cover and measured the scale: 23.5"

It has a set of 16-56 nickel dobro strings on it, I've played Rock lap steel on it in GBDGBD for decades and it has worked great for that style with those gauges of strings. When I decided many years ago to tune it to G since I was playing a lot of dobro and my "muscle memory" worked with that tuning, I went out and bought a string set like I mentioned above. I didn't think real hard about it - and there was no John Ely chart to consult with on the internet - because the internet was around yet.

I haven't purchased Bruce Bouton's lap steel course yet, but he has commented that it includes both G and D tuning.

[Lee Holliday]

I would change out the 13 to a 15 and keep the rest of the set as is.

Lee

[Dave Mudgett]

On the John Ely chart - his recommendations for low-to-high GBDGBD are
[tab]
Note Range His Choice
D 15-17p 16p
B 17-19p 18p
G 24-26w 24w
D 32-36w 34w
B 34-38w 38w
G 44-48w 48w
[/tab]
My reading of his preamble is that this is for around 24-24.5" scale. I did some string tension calculations a while back and came to the conclusion that tension in the middle of his range is around 25 pounds/string or so. The reduction of tension in going from, let's say, a 24.5" scale to a 23" scale is about 13%, and the gauge increase needed to make up for this is about 8%. So I'd be inclined to do something more like 16-17p, 19-20p, 26-28w, 36-38w, 42-44w, 52-54w.

Again, this is to maintain something like 25 pounds/string tension on your electric lap steel. Acoustic instruments like Dobro typically run higher tension than this - there's an issue of acoustic projection that you don't have with an electric lap steel. But there should not be a big issue increasing the wound string gauges from this if you want. I also agree with Mark that 13p would work but is probably a bit wimpy, especially on a short-scale steel.

[Peter Jacobs]

I use a .054 or .056 for that low G on my 22.5” scale lap steels. Any heavier and it just thuds, any lighter and it’s too floppy.

[Tor Arve Baroy]

I installed a hipshot on my Melobar, and it works really good for both E B E G# B E, and G B D G B D
I know I added a sligthly heavier lowest string, but cant remember gauge right now. Ill measure gauges later

[Jonathan Scherer]

That hipshot looks like a good idea, Tor.
Do you remember what the model is called?

The doubleshot that is offered now goes for $600 plus!
That is $100 more than I paid for the guitar.

https://hipshotproducts.com/collections ... ing-system

I expect I will buy some strings for open G someday and in the interim try tuning the open E strings to G.

With Bruce Bouton's course I could try to transpose the Open G tablature he offers to Open E.

All the tab in the course currently is in Open G.

Thank you all for tips and advice.

[Mark Eaton]

The Hipshot on Tor’s guitar is called the Trilogy. I’m glad he’s happy with it, but it has received mixed reviews over the years.

I’m not even sure Hipshot is still producing these, but they are out there for sale as used and some New Old Stock.