Advice Needed

David Levitsky · Post by **David Levitsky** » 22 Apr 2006 7:27 pm

Hello to all.

I need some advice. When I first started trying (and I mean trying, not succeeding - yet) to become a decent steel player, I bought this D10 Zumsteel from a fellow forum member.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum9/HTML/001177.html

Well, I got busy, I got a line on a nice emmons and bought that one too, and ended up leaving the Zum in the box for a while, without really setting it up and inspecting it. I had no cause to think that anything was out opf the ordinary since the buyer had stated that "Bruce built it this way for the guy that ordered it new, nothing has been changed on the guitar" in the posting and because of his excellent reputation I took him at his word.

I live in a small house and my wife would flip if I had two D10's out at the same time.

Anyway, I finally have gotten around to setting the Zum up, and putting it on Ebay, especially now that it's Uncle Sam time and we've been serioulsy cash flow depleted.

Took pictures of the Zum, and immediately saw that there was what looked to me to be an aftermarket Right Knee that was hooked to the E strings on the E9 neck and also to the C Neck.

I have never seen this type of configuration, and am wondering if this is a standard type of thing to do when there is no room in the undercarraige for a knee. If seems a bit out of the ordinary to me but I know very little about steels.

I realize that as the buyer I should have been on top of this, but it was not mentioned to me and as you can see in the original photos, it's almost impossible to make out since there is no direct head on shot.

I put it up on EBay with full disclosure of the knee and have got a bid, but at $700 less than I paid. I am thinking that I may cancel the auction and have the guitar returned to stock before I sell it as new, or leave it up on EBay and take a loss from the $1995 I paid.

Does anyone have some advice they could share with me on whether 1) they have seen this type of mod before (assuming its a mod) 2) whether it is commonplace 3) what kind of adverse effect it would have on the value of the guitar if any, 4) how hard it would be to return the steel to stock, and 5) with the knee on the steel what I could expect if to fetch on Ebay.

I appreciate your kind feedback to davidlevitsky AT gmail.com . I don't hold any ill will toward the seller of the guitar to me, as they say "Caveat emptor" and I should have looked at it at the very least last year - at least then I could have questioned him about this. Again I appreciate any help anyone is able to provide with advice and so on.

Best,

David[This message was edited by David Levitsky on 22 April 2006 at 11:12 PM.]

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 22 Apr 2006 7:39 pm

David

There are better qualified Forumites than me who will no doubt chime in here, but it sounds like it's a bad week on E-Bay if your Zum didn't get close to the (very fair) price you originally paid!

Only seven pedals IS a bit unusual, and I'm not certain whether or not that is a non-standard knee-lever, but less than $2000 for a good looking Zum is a very good deal. The offending part could, I'm sure, be easily removed and replaced with one of Bruce's kits, but I can't think that its presence would affect the value of the guitar.

You MUSTN'T let it go for $1300! It looks like a fine steel....

RR

David Levitsky · Post by **David Levitsky** » 22 Apr 2006 7:47 pm

Thanks for the advice. The auction still has a ways to go and I am thinking that I am going to cancel it tomorrow, try to get in touch with Bruce Monday and get the guitar restored before I part with it. It's a really nice guitar but I had never seen a knee mounted outside the guitar.

Wayne D. Clark · Post by **Wayne D. Clark** » 22 Apr 2006 8:09 pm

For what it is worth, My suggestion that is, Do not accept a bid on that Zum for less than what you paid for it. At least not yet. I think there may be an answer to your question about one Knee working two Necks, E9 and C6, Usually you do not use both tunings at the same time. Secondally I think I may have a chart showing a set up using one Knee that effects both tunings. An third I think the Zum D10 is worth more than $1300.00. Mind you these are my thoughts and there are more knowledgable pickers out there than I am.

Wayne
MSA D10 8/2

David Levitsky · Post by **David Levitsky** » 22 Apr 2006 8:34 pm

Thanks, I've emailed the seller and I plan on contacting Bruce (anyone have his email-seems to be "unlisted").

I am sure there is a story here somewhere, whether the former owner requested the knee to suit his style or similiar...

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 22 Apr 2006 9:37 pm

David wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Took pictures of the Zum, and immediately saw that there was what looked to me to be an aftermarket Right Knee that was hooked to the E strings on the E9 neck and also to the C Neck.

I have never seen this type of configuration, and am wondering if this is a standard type of thing to do when there is no room in the undercarraige for a knee. If seems a bit out of the ordinary to me but I know very little about steels.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

David how many right knee's does it have? Also lowering the E's on E9 and lowering the 3rd on C6th or raising the 4th works really good. I could not find your item on E-bay. If I could see a picture I or someone could maybe help. Buyers should be more concerned with how well the changer works than an after market knee lever. But then I'm not an E-bayer.......bb

[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 22 April 2006 at 10:38 PM.]

David Levitsky · Post by **David Levitsky** » 22 Apr 2006 10:02 pm

Hey Bobby,

It has the three on the left, and the one "regular" one on the right plus the one mounted outside the case. Do you think Bruce could have made it this way?

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 22 Apr 2006 10:18 pm

Outside the case. Is it wrist lever?? No a wrist lever would hang up not down.

I have seen one guitar. A single neck Zum I think.That had a knee hung outside the rear appron.I would love to see a picture. Your best bet is to call Bruce with the serial #.Also Tommy Dodd played the guitar while he was in Texas. He might know the scoop. Sorry wish I could be of more help.........bb[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 22 April 2006 at 11:23 PM.]

Larry Clark · Post by **Larry Clark** » 23 Apr 2006 1:43 am

This must be it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Zumsteel-D-10... [This message was edited by b0b on 24 April 2006 at 07:25 AM.]

steve takacs · Post by **steve takacs** » 23 Apr 2006 2:03 am

David, I'm with Roger and Wayne on this one. I'd cancel the auction, and and if you sell it on EBAY, list a reserve with a price below which you will not sell it (like $2100) If the guitar works well, it's at least worth what you paid for it. The buyer can always have a pedal and lever added. Good luck, steve t

Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 23 Apr 2006 3:48 am

Oh man, that lever stuck on the outside of the guitar would really hurt the value (IMO)
Hook

new cd available at

------------------
www.HookMoore.com

Steven Black · Post by **Steven Black** » 23 Apr 2006 4:42 am

Hello David, that is a modification on your Zum that another owner made, probably because that was a large person who did not sit well at the guitar or they wanted to reach that lever by hand instead of knees, may not have been a large person but maybe a person missing a leg or part of a leg, but for what ever reason I am sure bruce could restore it, may need to have the Formica removed and new replaced.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 23 Apr 2006 4:54 am

David just viewed the pix.The knee has homemade written all over it. Sorry bb

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 23 Apr 2006 8:10 am

David this is the picture that Albert had when selling it; and looks like it's hard to see; but that homemade lever was on there>

So; yep you may of gotten something you didn't particularly want; and may be hard to resale for the price you bought it for...but maybe not.....it still a nice Zum.
Ricky

Wayne D. Clark · Post by **Wayne D. Clark** » 23 Apr 2006 8:19 am

David, Wayne here again, I looked at your ZUM, last night on Ebay and again this morning to see how the biding was going and also to take another look at the insterment. I noticed that you have 2 days and 11 hours left on the auction. If I rember correctly you still have time to pull the item. I agree with Steve cancil the offer. If you do decide to sell it on Ebay Do what Steve suggested put a reserve on it. That will pritect you, at the present I think you are bound to sell it at highest offer and presently that's not good for you. I do know and you do to if you have watched Ebay the Bidding gets serious the last few minutes of an auction. I'v lost bids with in the last few minutes. It's a Fine insterment and I think the sentiment of the advice is don't let it go for less than you paid for it. It's a ZUM.

Wayne

MSA D10 8/2

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Apr 2006 9:14 am

Oh gosh, I'll probably make a gazillion enemies here, but I'm going to just say what I think...

I think that anyone that really wanted to play would have opened that (box, case, crate, whatever) before the UPS man was out of sight! Yet, you tell us you were "busy"? Bill Gates ain't that busy!

Then, there's the subject of the screwed-up guitar. Are you saying someone had that guitar up for sale without a good picture of that Rube-Goldberg abortion sticking out of it? That's ridiculously deceiving. A "ripoff" pure and simple.

At this point, I award this thread the "Stephen King" medal. It's hard to know who or what to believe.

Strange.

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 23 Apr 2006 9:50 am

For what its worth I've done business with David and found him to be very easy to do business with. If the lever is an add-on, it should be easy to un-add and put it back to stock. Hope it works out for you David.

Russ

John Poston · Post by **John Poston** » 23 Apr 2006 9:55 am

I would just relist it with a reserve. Don't panic about price even then though. Most of my auctions shoot up in price in the last day/hours/minutes.

David Levitsky · Post by **David Levitsky** » 23 Apr 2006 1:05 pm

I appreciate all of your help.

I have decided to remove the item from Ebay and repost it there with a reserve, or post it here with the correct information. If I do post it here I will contribute a double donation to b0b representing my gratitude for the existence of a forum of this kind that helps neophytes such as myself navigate the pedal steel world.

For the record, the original exchange between myself and Albert was at http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum9/HTML/001177.html . Now, you'll see in the postings that Albert states that "Bruce built it this way for the guy that ordered it new, nothing has been changed on the guitar.

I spoke to Bruce this afternoon, and he did verify that he put the knee on, confirming Albert's statement in his posting. Apparently, the gentleman that the guitar was built for was a big guy who wanted it this way.

As for Donnny's comments, the issues of 1) whether the original pics posted were adequate and, 2) whether I opened the box "fast enough", are just plain besides the
point of my orignal posting, which was to gather accurate information regarding this
guitar, so that I could convey it properly to any future buyer.

As far as I am confirmed Bruce's confirmation of Albert's statement means "mystery solved" and, I now have enough info to provide a prospective buyer. [This message was edited by David Levitsky on 23 April 2006 at 02:08 PM.]

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 23 Apr 2006 6:35 pm

Well David.You've had a good day.It doesn't look like Bruce's work.But if he said he did it.He did. Best of luck with your sale..bb

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 Apr 2006 6:15 am

Well David, you're right. My comments did nothing to give you advice, but were more those of a curious "bystander". I apologize. Truth is, I felt sorry for you, believing that you bought a guitar in good faith, and you weren't made fully aware of it's rather "crude" appearance. However, if you are satisfied that the seller was forthright enough with you, and you are happy with the transaction, then I have no call to question the deal. Also, I admit I found it odd that someone wouldn't at least examine a guitar that they'd bought in a timely fashion, if for no other reason than to check for shipping damage, or to just compare it to the other guitar which was bought later. Again, forgive me.

In the end, you learned about the guitar, and I learned a little bit about people. In that respect, I think we've both benefitted from this discourse.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 24 Apr 2006 8:28 am

The bottom line...

If the guitar plays well and the odd part works properly,
then I see no problem ; IF you say it is
a custom Zum with a very special RK lever.
Show a good close up, and then it's fair play.

I am not in the market right now, but it wouldn't bother me to have an Bruce built oddity.