Pedal Length

Richard Thacker · Post by **Richard Thacker** » 8 Apr 2020 6:47 am

I have an Emmons steel which I love but, the pedal length from the rod to the end of the pedal seems very short. I have a problem going from pedal to pedal because the rods interfere with my toes and I am also having to push the pedals with the end of my toes. Is there such a thing as a pedal extender so I can lengthen the pedal a little. Thanks for the help. Thanks for any help. Rich

John Palumbo · Post by **John Palumbo** » 8 Apr 2020 7:39 am

On my Williams it's much the same thing, but I was able to adjust to it in playing. If I ever ordered another guitar from Bill I would ask if he could move the pedal rods closer to the pedal bar because of that.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 8 Apr 2020 7:41 am

I depends a lot on what footwear you use. Pointy toe cowboy boots will snag the pedal rods worse than round toed mocs, sneakers and the like.

Gene Tani · Post by **Gene Tani** » 8 Apr 2020 8:22 am

I'm guessing you kick the rods when go from AB to BC, if you wander around Home Depot enough you'll find square cross section fence bracket that can maybe be an extender and 10 or 15 pound velcro can hold it on

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Navajo-Fenc ... /206000252

OR (some steels, not my Carter) you could have the pedals rethreaded for the connector further in

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 8 Apr 2020 9:01 am

Heres a couple of threads on that. I just sent some pedals to a machinist to be made longer myself.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... s&start=25

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... ger+pedals

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 8 Apr 2020 9:01 am

Moving the connector further in would increase the travel a lot.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 8 Apr 2020 9:52 am

Of course.

Kenneth Mennen · Post by **Kenneth Mennen** » 8 Apr 2020 11:32 am

Bumping into the rods when moving from AB to BC is the number one thing I'd like to fix with my guitar/playing. It causes me to pull my foot back a little bit before I do, rather than just pivot, which makes me hesitate, and then I'll occasionally half-mash BC, which sounds terrible. I'm a newer player, so maybe my technique sucks, or maybe it's the shape of my foot, but the only thing I found to make it acceptable it to wear Chuck Taylor shoes - that are one size too small! I have a Williams, and in every respect I like it, except that one issue. Not sure if longer pedals would for sure do the trick but it seems logical that it could. Also, I think guitar ergonomics may be part of this as well, as in, does your guitar fit your body type? I didn't get to try a lot of guitars before I bought mine, so maybe other guitars would have fit me better? IDK. I can say that am glad at least that I bought an SD10 versus an S10, where it seems with the S10 I'd be in tighter to the guitar and closer to the pedals, making it worse.

Richard Thacker · Post by **Richard Thacker** » 8 Apr 2020 12:50 pm

Thanks guys for the info. Those extenders look like they would work. I have a GFI and there is no problem at all. Also I am aware of foot wear, and the learning curve but my shoes are into the rods most of the time unless I use the very point of my foot, not just when I'm changing pedals.I don't wear pointed boots. It seems to me that the pivot point of the rods are to far away from the rail The GFI pivot point is close to the rail. Thanks again

John Palumbo · Post by **John Palumbo** » 8 Apr 2020 1:12 pm

Just to add to this, moving the rods closer to the pedal bar also seems to make depressing the pedals easier, much like a fulcrum on a lever. I can only compare this to a previously owned Mullen Royal Precision that I had, depressing the pedals on the Mullen RP guitar seemed much easier than the Williams and which just seemed to be noticeably stiffer. (my own opinion)

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 8 Apr 2020 1:47 pm

I corresponded with a player who told me Mullen pedals are longer than Emmons pedals. I emailed Mullen for the specs to see how much difference there is. Interestingly enough, I can play a Mullen and a GFI with no issues. I can play my Emmons, but if I dont pay pretty close attention, I also hit the rods with my toes. I figured my size 13 foot was the issue with shorter pedals.

Gene Tani · Post by **Gene Tani** » 8 Apr 2020 2:21 pm

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... 39#2286539

(Lots of variation in axle to connector distance and connector to end of pedal length) my carter is 3 1/2" from connector to end of pedal which is around standard (but i have problems with the sloping slippery top

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 9 Apr 2020 8:20 pm

The placement of the rod attachment to the pedals was one of the things I spent a lot of time and figuring on when I built my steel years ago. In 1970 era most steel guitar had their pedal rod near the middle of the pedal throw.

You only have so much lineal travel, (pull distance), Radius of changer finger,The changer pivot axle to pull rod holes, To the bell crank, To the pedal rod lever on the cross rod, To the connector on the pedal itself. You have to have enough lineal travel in pedal pull to reach the tuning notes before the pedal hits solid on the floor.

One place to gain travel would be on the pedal rod lever to the cross rod if the lever is long enough, BUT this could put more stress on the cabinet and more cabinet drop. This may be another thing to consider.

Some one mentioned the pedals of GFI steel, My GFI has 4 inches of leverage on pedal and 1" to pedal pivot on pedal bar.

If you move something in the pedal train you may have to find a place to regain the travel.
Good Luck if you chose to try changing pedal ratio.
Back Happy Steelin.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 10 Apr 2020 1:15 am

Bobby is dead right - if you change one measurement it will likely need compensating elsewhere. The manufacturer has supplied what he reckons is the best balance. Of course you can't please everyone, but the beauty of these instruments is that with patience they can be tailored to the individual.

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 10 Apr 2020 5:05 am

I can't remember exactly what guitar it was I owned in the past but I am pretty sure it was an older BMI that had 3 holes tapped on the pedals to allow movement of the rod position. In the picture of Phillips modification I can see where one MIGHT need to change the angle of the pedal so the end will not contact the floor, but other than that, several players have made pedals longer on Emmons guitars and have not encountered any play-ability issues. Somewhere around 2008 or so I had a Legrande and I called Ron at Emmons and asked if he could make longer pedals. He said he could do it but it was cost prohibitive to me and he was not even sure when he could get around to it. He did not mention it causing any issues with the guitar.

It would seem that the pivot point is still the same on Phillips modification.

Willie Sims · Post by **Willie Sims** » 10 Apr 2020 9:51 am

check out my pedal exstenders easey and simple posted by willie sims a year or so back.
if instrested call me at 270 442 2106

willie sims

Gene Tani · Post by **Gene Tani** » 10 Apr 2020 10:09 am

BMI w/ multiple spots for the connector

https://www.creamcitymusic.com/2008-zan ... el-guitar/

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 10 Apr 2020 10:25 am

Gene Tani wrote:BMI w/ multiple spots for the connector

https://www.creamcitymusic.com/2008-zan ... el-guitar/

Yes, that was it. I remember the connectors being on top of the pedals. That was actually pretty cool.

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 10 Apr 2020 10:34 am

Here's a link to Willie's thread. These are pretty cool. I kind of wish I had seen these before I sent my pedals out to the machine shop.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... =extenders

Gene Tani · Post by **Gene Tani** » 10 Apr 2020 2:45 pm

this is what Willie mentioned for raw materials

https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/sta ... angle-tube

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 10 Apr 2020 3:25 pm

The best solution is proper placement of your foot/shoe. Your foot is like a lever, most powerful and more travel towards the end, your toes. put just enough shoe on the ENDS of pedals, keep your heel on the floor, and simply swivel your foot from your heel to move to B+C. Can't imagine bumping into pedal rods if you mash pedals that way. Same advice I share with all my E9 students!

dlayne · Post by **dlayne** » 10 Apr 2020 5:39 pm

Lyle Bradford has this done for his Emmons guitars and I got to set down and check them out and they are killer, action is superb

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... s&start=25

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... ger+pedals[/quote]

Kenneth Mennen · Post by **Kenneth Mennen** » 11 Apr 2020 6:32 am

John McClung wrote:The best solution is proper placement of your foot/shoe. Your foot is like a lever, most powerful and more travel towards the end, your toes. put just enough shoe on the ENDS of pedals, keep your heel on the floor, and simply swivel your foot from your heel to move to B+C. Can't imagine bumping into pedal rods if you mash pedals that way. Same advice I share with all my E9 students!

Thanks John. I think I have basically tried that, but your advice has in a way articulated in my mind what the problem really is for me. I cannot, for some reason, press the pedals reliably with just my toes, and can only feel confident when the meat of my foot behind my toes engage the pedal. Weak-toe syndrome I think!

It's been 2 1/2 years of very steady practice, so in that time I've really poked at the problem with pedal adjustments, foot placement, and especially shoes - no joke, at least 6 pair. Ultimately, if I could get a 1/2" longer pedal it would seem likely to help. And, when I buy my next guitar, how the pedals lay out will be key - and I will for sure not buy without trying first.

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 14 Apr 2020 2:31 pm

This is one of my finished pedals. Its 1.5 inches longer than stock. That makes it closer to being like my Mullen which I can play without hitting the rods.

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