Textbook Examples of Steel and Guitar Playing Together?

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 14 Jun 2019 9:50 am

Can't help but agree that Doug & Bucky, Vance & Jimmie, Buddy & Leon, and others are every bit as deserving to be on the list as James & Ralph, Jimmy & Speedy, Jim & Bob, et al.

And if Hank & Albert and/or James are on the list, Jay Dee & JJ should be, too. So should Paul & Vince.

Brisbane Bop is exceptional, if just a tad off the radar of most contemporary listeners. Same goes for Doug & Bucky. Sublime.

Dave Hepworth · Post by **Dave Hepworth** » 15 Jun 2019 10:35 am

Pure Praire League.....
Same old country Song
Tears
Kansas City southern

rick andrews · Post by **rick andrews** » 25 Jun 2019 1:33 pm

Lots of good ones already mentioned. I would include any steel player that ever played with Bobby Caldwell.

Ronald Heinzel · Post by **Ronald Heinzel** » 25 Jun 2019 5:18 pm

Dave Hepworth wrote:Pure Praire League.....
Same old country Song
Tears
Kansas City southern

Dave,
Great band and one of my favorites!
Saw them in Winona Minnesota sometime in the 70â€™s ? A few of those years are a little fuzzy !

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 26 Jun 2019 12:10 am

I just started rehearsing with a guitar player who is an absolute gift. He can churn out endless fluid fills but doesn't, and is constantly vigilant whether to step forward or lay back. As long as I do the same it works, and if we accidentally end up duetting, he's good at that too.

In his day job he's a driving instructor - could that be significant? (Keep your eyes on the road, Keep your hands upon the wheel....)

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 6 Mar 2020 7:48 pm

Larry Ball wrote:Here is a pair of favorites of mine:

Stuie French and Michel Rose (Michel is a member on the forum) Their group is "The Feral Swing Katz" and they play a lot on "Utube" at various venues. Tamworth Festival being one, They both have played with the "Spin Drifters". They have played together for a least 20 yrs, they both have great style's and are able to mix them. Redd Volkaert, who once played lead for Merle Haggard plays a lot with them when he goes to Australia.

Here is a nice one--->Click Here

Mike Bacciarini · Post by **Mike Bacciarini** » 7 Mar 2020 6:41 am

Hereâ€™s the application of the Buckaroos model: Bill Lloyd and Rusty Young (and John Cowan) in The Sky Kings. Early Poco with Jimmy Messina and Rusty is also classic in the Buckaroos template.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iK528I9L1bc

Thomas Sabatini · Post by **Thomas Sabatini** » 7 Mar 2020 7:11 am

Bill Frisell and Greg Leisz, in a more modern context. The All We Are Saying album is a new standard.

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 7 Mar 2020 9:34 am

Mike Bacciarini wrote:Hereâ€™s the application of the Buckaroos model: Bill Lloyd and Rusty Young (and John Cowan) in The Sky Kings. Early Poco with Jimmy Messina and Rusty is also classic in the Buckaroos template.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iK528I9L1bc

That was another great virtually unknown band. Almost forgot about them myself, so thanks for the reminder! There is no artistic reason they shouldn't have been huge.

David Ball · Post by **David Ball** » 7 Mar 2020 9:47 am

Gotta count Curly Chalker and Jimmy Capps in there too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW-yohnKXCE

Brett Lanier · Post by **Brett Lanier** » 7 Mar 2020 9:54 am

Here's the full "Ernest Tubb Presents...." record. A lot of crazy stuff on there from Leon and Buddy #2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7zamXlVROY

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 7 Mar 2020 11:32 am

I agree with having a lead and fill formula for songs that follow the formula. For songs that don't follow the formula, that's where the whole band might want to have a say in how the dynamics of the tune should be arranged. If there are background vocals, for example, instrumental fills might just get in the way.

If it's an unrehearsed band, or band with unrehearsed members, good players will already have an understanding of these approaches and good things will happen. Players that don't have a grip on it, even if they are good pickers, might create a happy accident here and there but the chances for disaster are greatly increased.

Highway 40 Blues is a great example of formula arrangement, because there are verses with no fills, with split fills, and 4 split solos over the two A & B sections.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 7 Mar 2020 1:08 pm

Bobby Nelson wrote:I don't think it gets more "textbook" than just about any Ernest Tubb with Buddy and Leon.

Damn Bobby, you sure hit that one out of the park!

Actually, most of the problem is that lead players these days have either forgotten (or never learned) how to play rhythm.

Tim Herman · Post by **Tim Herman** » 8 Mar 2020 3:41 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG6OMMZVItM

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 8 Mar 2020 4:06 pm

Tim Herman wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG6OMMZVItM

Probably just the mix because that is a good steel player who knows better, but the vocals are getting buried by the fills. Good interplay with the guitar though. He's not too shabby either

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 8 Mar 2020 7:40 pm

Joseph Carlson wrote:
I often find myself playing with tele pickers who feel like they need to fill each and every tiny gap in the music with a hot lick or three.

This is all too common. I once pointed out to one of these children that he was hogging all the rides and fills and not leaving any room for me to play anything, and he answered something to the effect: "Hey,I don't know what that thing does, but I'm the lead player and I'm going to play all the leads."

This was a one nighter. I never saw the guy again.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 10 Mar 2020 1:18 am

if we are playing in a band, any band, with any other instruments, if we are not having a silent communication ( eye and ear contact) with the other players we are not actually playing in a band. We do not need a formula, we need to understand and execute "anticipation".

Everyone, not just us.

Sometimes it IS us !

Next we have to ask ourselves, does every so9ng need a Steel break, does every song need a Guitar break ?

Does every song even need any solo break at all ?

Most of the examples cited above are studio recordings, then in many cases the same bands/players played that exact version live. It was already predetermined.

When we play a 3 or 4 our Dance, nothing or almost nothing is predetermined.

Communicate during the songs, if you can. If we can't and we have all been there , then it is decision time.

Not every Guitar player or Keys player that we work with even know who Jimmy Capps or Leon Rhodes is. Why would they ?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 10 Mar 2020 1:18 am

if we are playing in a band, any band, with any other instruments, if we are not having a silent communication ( eye and ear contact) with the other players we are not actually playing in a band. We do not need a formula, we need to understand and execute "anticipation".

Everyone, not just us.

Sometimes it IS us !

Next we have to ask ourselves, does every song need a Steel break, does every song need a Guitar break ?

Does every song even need any solo break at all ?

Most of the examples cited above are studio recordings, then in many cases the same bands/players played that exact version live. It was already predetermined.

When we play a 3 or 4 our Dance, nothing or almost nothing is predetermined.

Communicate during the songs, if you can. If we can't and we have all been there , then it is decision time.

Not every Guitar player or Keys player that we work with even know who Jimmy Capps or Leon Rhodes is. Why would they ?

And of course, being a Tele picker as well , I have never played in a band where the Steel player was totally out of control...

I wonder, do any other players ( Tele Guys/Gals) feel the same about us ? Or is it just them who is out of control ?

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 10 Mar 2020 12:58 pm

Hi Joseph,

Have a Youtube moment with the bandmate... Listening together to the recordings of songs that are problematic will cover the most ground.....Have him listen to the guitarist and the steelers parts and go from there.

Paul

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 10 Mar 2020 1:09 pm

My friend Tony Prior put it aptly "ear communication". In a loose situation, we use eye contact, but also just listen to determine if you are needed to contribute to the overall sound. Don't contribute to the clutter.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 10 Mar 2020 1:28 pm

There used to be a band here called The American Made Band, that had 4 lead instruments, guitar, fiddle and mandolin, keyboard and steel and occasional sax. (The steel player was one of my teachers, back in 1980 or 81.)

They made written outlines of each song, assigning every fill and ride to a different player or sometimes a combination of players. The result was that nobody ever stepped on anybody else, and the fills and rides on every song always changed from one instrument to another, creating a lot of variations and keeping things interesting.

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 11 Mar 2020 12:26 pm

Two words: Ensemble musicians. Good lead players can have musical conversations without runnin' their instruments over the tops of each other.

Like others have said, when one musician is playing a lead passage it's good manners to let him/her have his/her say and wait for your turn. When it's done well it sounds as though the music has been arranged. In a sense, it has been arranged by courtesy. Also, a benefit to that kind of playing is, many times one player will inspire the other player(s) to create something that fits really well and may not have occurred otherwise.

Some of the most fun I've had playing in bands had nothing to do with high-level musicianship. Although, that, too, is important. It had to do with the respect all the musicians had for one another and their roles in making music.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

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Textbook Examples of Steel and Guitar Playing Together?

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