If they had never invented knee levers,how many of you would

Richard Plummer · Post by **Richard Plummer** » 31 May 2002 5:04 am

Ok all you steelers out there.If knee levers had never been added to steel guitars,how many of you would be playing today.For me honestly,I can truthfully say there would be no way I would be.I love the sound of pedals the ease of them.I never really took to the sound of the steel without pedals.Also can you imagine all the steel solos that we love today of say Nobodys home by vince gill and how about look at us.The wonderful solos by Big john just wouldnt be the same.
Richard

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 31 May 2002 5:25 am

If you're on a desert island and all you know is eating sand, you may never even find the coconuts.

I for one would play steel with only pedals -- many wonderful recordings were made with no knee levers -- and many more with no pedals or knee levers. I might be pulling more strings behind the bar -- and trying to figure out how to add just ONE MORE NECK to my Fender Quad, but I WOULD be playing steel, levers or no levers.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro
[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 31 May 2002 at 06:27 AM.]

Richard Plummer · Post by **Richard Plummer** » 31 May 2002 5:40 am

Larry:Good post thanks.I am trying to get a reading here on the subject post.I wonder how many of the faithful forumites would still be around posting topics,answering topic questions and in general,even be interested at all in the instrument.Unfortunatly I didnt grow up in the time of none pedal recordings and have no interest in them. I fell in love with the sound of the pedal steel guitar and wanted to throw in my two cents.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 31 May 2002 6:10 am

Larry
Listen to Jerry Byrd,,Joaquin Murphey,Noel Boggs,,Herb Remington,,Bobby Koefer,and others before pedals and there were many,,,of most recent listen to Tom Morell & his Time Warp Top Hands,,,,and that will answer your question.

PS does anyone still drive a 5 speed Automobile??

The above mentioned are only a few of the great non pedal players of all time, they had their own distinctive sound,,to me,,,most everything I hear with the exception of a few pedal players,,,sound
alike,,,not with the non pedal players.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 31 May 2002 6:18 am

Jody,
I grew up listening to Jerry Byrd on the Eddie Hill Show EVERY MORNING before going to school. Little Roy and Kayton Roberts were on TV all the time when I was growing up in Nashville. I am FULLY AWARE what they, murph, wolf, and others are capable of. I don't personally choose to limit myself to no pedals, but fully respect those who do, especially realizing that folks like Morrell and Junior Brown are also excellent pedal players.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 31 May 2002 7:03 am

While my first pedal steel (Fender 400-6 pedals) did not have any knee levers, it became paramount within just weeks that one was sorely NEEDED. I entertained the idea of putting one on for a while.

Then, in '69 I bought an Emmons' D-10 P/P with 2 knee levers. It then became apparent very soon that 2 was simply NOT enough. So I drove up to Emmons' and had them install two more.

It is always nice to talk about using things from earlier in life. In some cases things are held in reverent passion. And for those that aspire to this scenrio I say, Go for it!

But for those that like to improve and evolve with new things (that are indeed better) I say, Go for it!

God bless you all,

carl

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 31 May 2002 7:48 am

Larry
Then you are as old as Iam

,,,Whatever floats your boat is the way to go. Much natural playing technique and individuality are lost with pedals,,,,there are many pure
advantages with a non pedal guitar,,,I play
both,,,but lean towards the non pedal players.

Chalker was a non pedal convert as was B.E.
Its only my opinion,,,,,,you asked for comments
I gave you mine,,,,,no federal case here.....

later my friend.....when it comes to players like John Hughey,,,I can agree with you,,,,but for the most part,,Im partial to the above mentioned,,,

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 31 May 2002 12:44 pm

Richard-Your post "if they never invented Knee levers would you still be playing Pedal steel. " OF COURSE I WOULD.

I played a 6 pedal Electra-Harp with no knee levers for 20 years. Made money too.

You can play jazz, country (not the later "country"), and everything in between with 6 pedals and no knee levers.

A lot of us did it. We evan played without foot pedals in the old days.

However, having said that. I appreciate the knee levers and pedals now and wouldn't go without them anymore....al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 31 May 2002 at 09:14 PM.]

Larry Schubert · Post by **Larry Schubert** » 2 Jun 2002 10:08 am

I know I would I started out on a 6string supro lapsteel. Eaven thoght I know have a carter sd10 with 3& 5 I still cant touch Jerry byrd ... I dont harly touch the old supro now but i played that thing for over a year while i saved u for my new steel and loved my old lap steel and if know one er invedted pedals and knee levers I would just want more necks. and more strings on my neck

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Jun 2002 10:23 am

yes, I would. My first Pedal Steel, A Maple Maverick had no knee levers, then I added 1, then I sold it and bought a Pedal Steel with 4, used three, then sold it . Didn't play for a while, then bought a another with 4, sold it , bought another with 2 , Don't play that one much but still have it, bought another with 5 knee levers and use all 5..was this a run on sentance? The next one will have more than 5, maybe 5 1/2.

"If they hang there, we will move them"

tp

tp[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 02 June 2002 at 11:25 AM.]

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 2 Jun 2002 10:38 am

My guess is, if it had never occured to anybody to invent such a thing as a knee lever, they would have put a lot more changes on pedals, like on the old Fender PSGs. 10 pedals or even more would not be unusual. Maybe even crossover designs where all pedals operate both necks would be much more common. As a result, most players would be using both feet on the pedals, which limits the use of the volume pedal. To get around that, at this point someone might have got the idea of placing it elsewhere - how about a volume control knee lever?

Richard Plummer · Post by **Richard Plummer** » 2 Jun 2002 12:39 pm

I guess the original post should have read if they had never invented knee levers aaaaaaaand pedals would you be playing today. I wonder still. Richard

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 2 Jun 2002 6:01 pm

Joe-A volume control knee lever was put on one of my early home built guitar.

I had a spring on it so it would snap back.

It worked ok, but I had to have my knee against it all the time and that got tiring, then went back to both feet on the pedals.....al

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 3 Jun 2002 7:15 am

yesssssssssss

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 3 Jun 2002 7:38 am

Jody - you said it better than I could.

It's not what you've got but what you DO with what you got.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 3 Jun 2002 3:15 pm

Professionals have a term for the players who can't play very much without using pedals.

They call them "beginners".

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 03 June 2002 at 04:16 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 3 Jun 2002 4:05 pm

Knee levers? Why? Just play the guitar, The dancers can't tell the difference, the rhythm player doesn't care, the band leader isn't paid to know the difference, the knee levers are just for you! You either need them or you can get along without them. Me? I don't care, I'll play any pro job in town either way and no one even looks outside their little world long enough to notice. They are all to worried about what's going on in their own world. The guitar player about how loud he can get, the band leader how much he can sing like the star on the record he idolizes, the bass player who's wife he can pickup, the drummer is worried about how loud and long he can play after the song is over (fantisizing he's working with elvis in Vegas). Think the waters care?
Nope, face it guys, the knee levers are for you and you only. You can make just as much money without them. BUT-----> You better wear the right color shirt or you'll get fired!!!! This is really just show business. The playing part is not that important, unless you are going out just to dig another steel player. And you won't pay a cover charge anyway, so---- Think you have to have knee levers? No, It's the shirt that's important, Ask the club owner!

Ben Warkin Tulong

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 3 Jun 2002 4:59 pm

Bobbe
SEND ME A SHIRT...

You are the only guy on this Forum who gives a "shirt"

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 03 June 2002 at 06:00 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 3 Jun 2002 6:19 pm

Jody, I'm glad you are reading this great work of art that I am so seriously composing, It's obvious that I should give a shirt, so I will, send me your address.
-bObbe-

Sorry -bOb- it just looks better the way I spell it

Bobbe---->[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 04 June 2002 at 07:46 AM.]

Post by **b0b** » 3 Jun 2002 9:02 pm

I don't have any pedal steels that don't have knee levers, but I have played a Fender 400. It's sort of fun to get both feet on the pedals. If they hadn't invented knee levers, we probably wouldn't be using volume pedals today.

Hey Bobbe, no fair ripping my logo!

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/coolb0b2.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
-System Administrator

Ted Solesky · Post by **Ted Solesky** » 3 Jun 2002 11:15 pm

Listen to ""Twang" A Country Song" album by Duane Eddy. It was made around 1963. Emmons played on it. Jimmy Day's "Golden Steel Guitar Hits" is another fine example. It is more challenging but it still sounds great. I do use knee levers and I would really have to wood-shed if I lost them, but, if you have the sincere love and desire for the instrument, you'll amaze yourself in what you'll come up with.
Ted

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Travis Bolding · Post by **Travis Bolding** » 4 Jun 2002 4:31 am

Bobbe is 100% correct (has THAT ever been said before???)...pedals, no pedals, knees, no knees - they all play the same to me, and no one cares or notices. I love my knee levers, but sometimes I play without using them just to force myself to find more ways to use the pedals. Then again, I play some songs and never move my bar and ONLY use knees and pedals. But the most fun is when I take out my "Retro Rocket" (vintage Gibson lap steel with no pedals) and go head to head with some rock guitar player who thinks he's pretty hot. I scorch'em every time!! I may be "country", but I'm a big fan of Johnny Winter, Jimmi Hendrix, and BB King...and that's all I play on the Retro Rocket. Sooooooo, I love'em all, pedals or not!

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 2 Apr 2006 1:32 pm

I saw a photograph of a pedal steel with six knee levers.

Do you need three legs to play it, or is there some other trick ?

(...and for the jokers out there, I'm assuming only using your legs !)

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 2 Apr 2006 2:01 pm

My Fender 400 has had knee levers added but I also like playing my 1000 in E7 and C6 with no knee levers.

I think they make it easier - but they're not essential.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 2 Apr 2006 3:54 pm

Guys I've heard some non pedal players that really had it going on and never sounded like they were slanting the bar. Unfortunately I hear a lot of guys pulling strings and doing some mighty bad slants that makes them out of tune. I just can't listen to it. I won't say who it is but for me if you can slant and be accurate all the time fine but if not stay away from it and get some pedals. I always wonder if they know how out of tune they are.