P/P Emmons

[Mike Wilkerson]

This thread is for diehard P/P players who know this type of steel as well as there mother or wives. Not looking for a debate between all pull vs pushpull. My question is I’m not necessarily looking for a collector type P/P to be sitting in my music room collecting dust I’m looking for a quality workhorse P/P to gig with. Is the early 70’s model or late 60’s model be my best choice? I here 72 models are ideal. Give me your thoughts

[Ben Waligoske]

You'll probably get more bang for your buck on a 70s model cuttail... the 60s wraps and bolts are well regarded, but you'll pay a premium for those early, more collectible models and if you're doing dive bar gigs, maybe not the best choice of horn to expose to potential dings and scuffs. Depending on, around 3k should get you into a well set up cut tail D10... good hunting!

PS - there's a couple of D10 cuts in the For Sale section as we speak, one asking 3500 and one asking 3400...

[Mike Wilkerson]

You'll probably get more bang for your buck on a 70s model cuttail... the 60s wraps and bolts are well regarded, but you'll pay a premium for those early, more collectible models and if you're doing dive bar gigs, maybe not the best choice of horn to expose to potential dings and scuffs. Depending on, around 3k should get you into a well set up cut tail D10... good hunting!

PS - there's a couple of D10 cuts in the For Sale section as we speak, one asking 3500 and one asking 3400...

Ben thank for input I will look into your recommendations.Slim

[Paul Sutherland]

My push-pull is a 1983 build with Legrande pedals. It's a great steel. I would be more concerned about the condition of the steel than it's year. Don't think you have to buy an early 70s PP to get great tone.

[Dave Diehl]

I have three Push Pulls and like Paul, one being an 83 which holds it's own against the other two but they are all equally good. I have to say though that Brian Adams (built many Push Pulls) always said he preferred the later 70's models.

[Dave Diehl]

dup

[Mark Robinson]

I have an early bolt on S10, a ‘75 D10, a ‘76 S10, and an ‘80 D10.

They all have great tone, but the ‘75 and ‘80 D10’s are what I play the most. Push pull tone of the ‘70’s is incomparable!

None are collector guitars for me.

[Mike Wilkerson]

I have an early bolt on S10, a ‘75 D10, a ‘76 S10, and an ‘80 D10.

They all have great tone, but the ‘75 and ‘80 D10’s are what I play the most. Push pull tone of the ‘70’s is incomparable!

None are collector guitars for me.

Hey mark so the 70’s models is probably my best bet?

[Ben Waligoske]

Mike, as others have said, there shouldn't be a massive difference in P/P tone or construction from about 1969/1970 into the 80s. The biggest differences you'll find would be the pickups installed and pedal sizes (old wide ones, mid-late 70s medium ones, and late 70s/80s LeGrande style). But like Paul said, I'd be more concerned with finding one with a clean, well adjusted undercarriage that you won't have to mess with... the rest is personal preference, mostly.

For what you're talking about, it seems silly to spend the extra thousands on a bolt or wrap...

[Mike Wilkerson]

Awesome input guys. I had a 69 that I just loved but lost her life when our house burned down. I appreciate all of y’all

[Mark Robinson]

Mike, for me, I’d consider the tone (if you’re close enough to play it) and condition of the guitar rather than the year.

[Mike Wilkerson]

Mike, for me, I’d consider the tone (if you’re close enough to play it) and condition of the guitar rather than the year.

I know the answer is no Mark but if you ever want to part with one of the S-10’s I would jump on it.

[Mike Wilkerson]

Mark great talking to you today brother. Mike

[Tony Prior]

Mike mine is an 81 . its very stable and consistent, and plays like a Legrande II. I am not able to say what a 60's or 70's does in comparison but I can say the 81 is terrific ! Not a case queen , an excellent condition player. Both Billy Knowles and Doug Palmer have been thru this guitar a few years back, it has been consistent every since. Rock solid. Oh yeah..it sounds pretty good too !

[Paul Sutherland]

There are some differences over the years. For awhile in the 70s the steel were made with a fatback, no cutout on the rear apron which reduces leg room. Sometime in the 70s the pedal spacing got narrower. And the stock single coil pickups gradually were wound with higher output. This is just focusing on the cut tail steels with metal necks, the vast majority of steels made.

So you might find a bit of difference over time. But they all can sound excellent. Thus, the condition of the steel you are considering should be the highest priority, IHO.

[Justin Griffith]

I’d try to play several and buy the one that speaks to you. That said, I naturally have some opinions.

I think 1969 was one of the best years for cut tails. I can’t remember coming across one that wasn’t great.

More often than not the fatback guitars are good but not as good as non fatback guitars. There are some exceptions.

I’ve owned 3 lacquer guitars with metal necks. All three were unremarkable in the tone department. They just didn’t have the sparkle.

I have a lacquer bodied guitar with a wood neck. It’s the best sounding guitar I own and is in the top 3 of guitars I’ve actually played. (Wood neck guitars are bolt ons in case you weren’t aware). I prefer the tone of this guitar slightly to my wraparound.

The late 70’s up till the end of production without a doubt produced the best playing guitars. All of the dimensions of the parts were right and everything worked in harmony.
There are some great sounding guitars in this era.

Try several if you can. There are several different pedal widths and spacings. Find one comfortable to you. I personally prefer wide pedals with wide spacing. Don’t overlook the pickups. An overwound pickup can kill these guitars. I’d also resist the temptation to overload the guitar with levers. I’ve seen excess levers kill more than one Emmons. I try to limit them at 4, although I have one with 6 and it’s still ok.

Good luck on your journey. It’ll probably be the last guitar you will need.

[George Seymour]

Thanks for the exact precise reply Justin!
Glad for your conversation on the wood neck 1971, a really good sounding guitar.

[Dyke Corson]

I've got a few push pulls (more than I deserve) but my favorite workhorse guitar is an early 80s push pull with the Legrande pedal rack. It has the best response on stage for me. It barks!!

[Mike Wilkerson]

All of you gentlemen thanks for the valuable Information. Mark our talk Sunday enlightened me to a lot of things. I would like y’all to take Marks lead and show off your Push Pull on this thread if y’all possibly can. This is above all my favorite type of steel

[Eric Philippsen]

I’ve been blessed with a number of push-pulls through the years including several from the mid-60’s thru the early 80’s. My go-to gigging one is an ‘81. Tone is great and I’m still amazed how well it stays in tune with only a rare tweaking every now and then. When I sit down behind it it’s kind of like putting on a comfortable old shoe. It just “fits”.

As others have mentioned I think the 70’s/80’s are great. The critical thing is, though, that it has to be set up and adjusted correctly.

[Johnie King]

A good way too learn about push pull Emmons steels is too start out with the Gs model.
The tone an playability are the same as the pro models.

[John Brabant]

The 70s to 80s are great sounding guitars. I like the wider cast pedals over the LeGrande pedals as they are more comfortable when playing with bare feet (usually with socks on) and don't show wear from use like the LeGrande pedals do. I own a 1978 that I bought thru Dave Diehl that I absolutely love and was fully gone thru. I had to do some minor tweaking, but it is a sweet steel. My 1982 has been in the case of late or gets pulled out when my friend Jim Pitman comes over to give me lessons.