Newbie with an MSA - copedant suggestions please

Mathias Lundqvist · Post by **Mathias Lundqvist** » 15 Mar 2006 9:45 am

Hello!

I'm new on this forum and need some help. Picked up playing steel about one year ago, playing a noname three pedal guitar. Resently, I bought an MSA Classic S10 E9, late '70s modell I think. The guitar is in fairly good shape but the LKR knee had been taken away and later rebuild again with bad parts, causing non-straight pullrods etc.
Now I have taken apart almost the entire guitar to clean and rod in a proper way. I will also rebuild the LKR knee with proper parts. The original pickup had been rewound with a result that wasn't that good. So it will be replaced with a George L pickup.

Now to the question.. I would like some input on how I should rod the guitar, that is, which pulls to put in it.

Pedals where all standard, and I plan to keep it that way of course.
I also like the left knee levers; LKL raising E:s, LKR lowering them.
The main issue is the right knee. The pulls where:
RKL - both F# to F
RKR - D# to D on second string and then both D:s down to C# after the "feel stop".

I have used the RKR a little but I haven't figured out any nice stuff to do with the RKL yet.
I would like tip's on what to change or ad. And straight out examples on what I can do with pulls suggested. Link to video or MP3 where I can see/listen to the change would be really great!

Thanks in advance for any answers!

Best regards
Mathias, Sweden

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 15 Mar 2006 10:11 am

It's more common to raise the F#'s. I raise them both to G, and have found that change hard to give up, but much more common now I think is raising the first string F# a whole tone with LKR.

John Poston · Post by **John Poston** » 15 Mar 2006 10:14 am

There's a lot of good possibilities for a 4th knee lever. I personally would change RKL to lower Bs to Bb.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by John Poston on 15 March 2006 at 10:15 AM.]</p></FONT>

John Bresler · Post by **John Bresler** » 15 Mar 2006 11:36 am

Here's a link to the pro's tuning page. You'll find the most common tuning arrangements here. The preference is yours because it must meet your style and feel.
http://b0b.com/tunings/

Richard Durrer · Post by **Richard Durrer** » 15 Mar 2006 6:37 pm

Hi Mathias:
I began my Pedal Steel career a year ago and now own an 1970's MSA S10 Classic, with 3 pedals and 4 knee levers. I have re-rodded the guitar twice now, as well as changed the pickup to a Wallace True-Tone. The guitar is now set up with standard Emmons setups. I would suggest that you visit the CARTER website and read the article on Rodding. They also have an excellent article on exactly how to install the rods which explains which bellcrank hole and which changer hole to use. It is a real art to get it all correct. Those sections really helped me in my rebuilding. The link is: http://www.steelguitarinfo.com/infoindex.html

Hope it helps.

Mathias Lundqvist · Post by **Mathias Lundqvist** » 16 Mar 2006 4:15 am

Thanks ya'll for your replies!

I'm now pretty sure that I will go "standard" with all pedals/knee execpt for the RKL lever. After have seen various diffrent copedants I have three questions on RKL pulls:

# 1 Which raise on the first string is more useful, F# to G or F# to G#? I would really appritiate examples on what those two changes can do.

# 2 Some raises string number seven from F# to G#, and some lowers string number six from G# to F#. Is one of them more "standard"?

# 3 Some raises 2nd string from D# to E. Is this very usefull?

John Poston: I actually have plans on exanding with vertical knee or maybe an extra pedal, with the lowering of Bs to Bb on it.

Richard Durrer: I have looked quite a bit on the carter website, really good resource!
Is your guitar all original? I would VERY much appritiate pictures of your guitar and especially pictures of the undercarrige and kneepedals. If you have any, please email them to me at mathias.lundqvist@gmail.com !

Ulf Edlund · Post by **Ulf Edlund** » 17 Mar 2006 2:45 am

Hi Mathias.
Congrats to your MSA (got a Classic SS myself)and welcome to the world of PSG. Quite addicting.
I raise both my F# to G# with my LKL.
I use it mainly for licks and melody playing.
I tested a guitar that didn't have that raise and found that i really missed it.
If you wish i can make you some examples.

Uffe

John Poston · Post by **John Poston** » 17 Mar 2006 9:05 am

The Zen masters say, leave the change off and just play with what you have until you instinctively feel the need for something musically that you can't do without adding a change to that lever. Add that and maybe you have rediscovered a standard pull, or maybe you have created your own unique concept.

I say, put on the common change F#s to G# and D# to E. Play around with it for a month or so and see what you can do. Then, you can back the changes off without any work and make it only F#s to G. Play around with that for a month and see which you can use more for what you want to do. To make it more complicated, some raise lower F# to G# and high F# to G, which is pretty good, too.

Either approach has it's ups and downs.

Mathias Lundqvist · Post by **Mathias Lundqvist** » 17 Mar 2006 11:13 am

John: Thank you for your advice. I have given it some thought today, and I have some ideas now on what to do with F# to G# raise, and I'm planing to rod it that way.

Ulf: It's good to hear that I have an fellow MSA owner in the north of sweden! Actually, my girlfriend lives in Umeå so I spend alot of time there. In fact, I'm here now

So if you want to meet and speak/play some MSA, send me a mail at: mathias.lundqvist@gmail.com.
This weekend or when ever, I do visit Umeå often

Dalton Boehm · Post by **Dalton Boehm** » 20 Mar 2006 6:37 pm

I pull 1st string to G# with LKL. When I need a G I grab 1st string with left middle finger and pull to G. Saw Sarah Jory do that several times. Works for me.

MSA d10-8&5 Vegas 400-Strat HH

Ben Slaughter · Post by **Ben Slaughter** » 20 Mar 2006 9:31 pm

I raise the F#s to G# and the 2nd string to E, like Paul Franklin on my "4th KL". There are tons of examples of the use of this change in modern country (most of them brought to us by Mr. Franklin himself). I'd almost consider it necissary if you are playing those type of tunes.

Couple examples off the top of my head:

Outro secion of "When you Need My Love" -Darryl Worley
Solo in "I Love This Bar"-Toby Keith
Solo in "Strawberry Wine"-Deanna Carter
Fill in the chorus of "Baby Girl"-Sugarland

Have fun.

Dalton Boehm · Post by **Dalton Boehm** » 21 Mar 2006 10:32 am

Should read-I pull 1st string to G# with RKL

Mathias Lundqvist · Post by **Mathias Lundqvist** » 21 Mar 2006 11:58 am

I'm convinced now, I will let the RKL pull both F# to G#. I will prepare the D# to E pull by installing an extra bellcrank aslo, but I will probably wait with rodding it 'til I've played with F# to G# only for a while.

Thanks ya'll!
I understand now that this have been discussed quite a bit here before, but newbie means newbie questions

As soon as I get some parts from Canada, I will put it together again!

Ben Slaughter · Post by **Ben Slaughter** » 21 Mar 2006 1:47 pm

The first two licks I mentioned use both the G# and D# pulls (strings 1 & 2), simultaneously.