Copedent changes on Kline anyone?

Mike Greenberg · Post by **Mike Greenberg** » 30 Dec 2019 6:47 am

I am looking at buying a used Kline and was wondering if anyone has any info on changing copedents for these guitars. I've done pretty extensive changes on other guitars in the past, but I understand that these Klines' changers and bell crank mechanics are not the same as others. I've looked at Winnie Winston's article and that was a helpful start as to the theory behind these guitars' mechanics. Any guidance or info on working on them would be great.
Thanks!

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 30 Dec 2019 10:13 am

Kline's are easy to work on. The only problem I can see is if you need to pull 3 strings on a pedal. The "bellcrank" equivalent on a Kline is an almost triangular looking plate that the pull rods hook to with a ferrule type fitting with a set screw. If you need to pull more than 2 strings, you need another one of those plates, a short rod that attaches it to one of the holes in the first plate. The pull system is like what they use on a team of horses that is pulling a wagon. When you press a pedal, the slack is taken up until all pulls start pulling at the same time. No need to try to "time" the pulls. It's automatic. Although I have read that some had hard pedal and lever stops under the guitar, mine did not. The stop was accomplished when the tuning screws on the end plate came in contact with the end plate. Slack in the pull rods could be adjusted by loosening the set screw in the fitting holding it to the plate, and sliding the rod back or forward. There needs to be a little slack.

I have owned ZB Customs, Sho~Buds, Williams, Carter, and Mullen. The Kline was my favorite, and as easy or easier to work on as any of the others I owned. I wish I still had my Kline.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 30 Dec 2019 10:20 am

When I built my first steel I copied the Kline idea because I didn't have the technology to build an all-pull changer and I didn't need many changes to get started.

Because it tunes right at the endplate the tuning stability is excellent once you get it set up the way you want.

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 30 Dec 2019 12:53 pm

The pieces Richard is referring to is called "yokes" and in addition to "a yoke attached to a yoke" for multiple pulls,,,you would also need to "borrow" a vacant hole in the end plate.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 30 Dec 2019 2:12 pm

Sonny Jenkins wrote:The pieces Richard is referring to is called "yokes" and in addition to "a yoke attached to a yoke" for multiple pulls,,,you would also need to "borrow" a vacant hole in the end plate.

YOKE! That's it. I must have sat for 15 minutes trying to think of what that was called.

The only thing I had bad happen to my Kline was, while tuning up before a gig, I pressed the B pedal, and it stayed on the floor. The hook that the pull rod hooks to on the 3rd string finger broke off. Before the gig started, I flipped the guitar over, place the pull rod for the 3rd string raise onto the hook on the lowering finger, tuned the 3rd string to A, and lowered the string to G#. My 6th string still raised G# to A. So I had to play the 3rd string backwards. Didn't think to also do it to the 6th string for consistency. Was an interesting night, for sure. The "repair" took maybe 10 minutes. I ended up swapping the 6th string finger with the 9th string finger (as I didn't have a raise on 9).

Mike Greenberg · Post by **Mike Greenberg** » 30 Dec 2019 4:50 pm

Richard Sinkler wrote:Kline's are easy to work on....

Richard, that's great to hear! I might be tapping you on the shoulder when mine arrives in a couple of days. I'm not looking to do anything drastic. Mainly, I need to move the E-lowers from RKR to RKL. If all goes well there, there a couple of similar "switches" I'm hoping to make.

Very curious to see how this changer system works...

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 30 Dec 2019 6:55 pm

I bought 2 used Klines (one sold, one I won't give up), and I've heard several times that Klines are not easy to change.
One person who told me actually did some changes on my copedent, so I'm going with that.
Still, Klines are such fine steels that it's worth the trouble, if trouble they be...

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 31 Dec 2019 3:18 am

Daniel Morris wrote:I bought 2 used Klines (one sold, one I won't give up), and I've heard several times that Klines are not easy to change.
One person who told me actually did some changes on my copedent, so I'm going with that.
Still, Klines are such fine steels that it's worth the trouble, if trouble they be...

Don't know why he thought it was so difficult. It's a lot easier than working on my Carter.

Chance Wilson · Post by **Chance Wilson** » 1 Jan 2020 3:15 am

I sent one of my Kline's to Joe around 2005 and had him overload it only because I wanted the extra parts while I could still get them. I think it was 9P8K or more. I think it's the best guitar for a classic timbre w/o cabinet drop and tuning instabilities. Somewhere in recent years, I heard you can still get parts from him. If he's still out there, he has the highest level of customer service and professionalism available. If you can live with a few extra pounds of premium maple and no splits, it's not hard to service and make changes to.

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 1 Jan 2020 10:31 am

I guess "easy" and "hard" are subjective terms,,,kinda like "how long is long". I've owned 12-15 Klines over the years,,,done some changes myself,,,sent some to Joe or Paul Redmond for changes,,have made myself a couple of special tools to facilitate work,,,some changes can be relatively easy,,while others will test your patience (and sanity). I've also bought and sold about every brand of all pull, as well as totally rebuilt some. That being said,,Kline would be my last choice (as far as doing work on!) to experiment with copedents. Kline is all I've played (generally speaking) for the past 25-30 years,,,but then I'm stuck on one basic copedent, by chance the same one Jeff Newman used. The few times I have wanted to experiment with other copedents, I've always done it with an all pull guitar. Currently I'm wanting to put pedal 6 on a LKR lever, but I'm reluctantly hesitating,,,dreading actually doing it,,,whereas with an all pull, i'd flip that sucker over and get'er done,,,LOL. Just my opinion,,YMMV

Jon Jaffe · Post by **Jon Jaffe** » 1 Jan 2020 1:46 pm

I have two Klines. One from 1983, that I commissioned Joe to build. In one from 2006 that was built in 1984. I replaced the fretboard and the pull rod on this fifth string from one I gig with to this day. When you get it, turn it upside down and study it. No I wouldn't want to change it to a left-handed guitar it would be doable, including the gauged rollers in three or four hours. Rick Troyer, a forum member, sells Klines and is very knowledgeable. I assume you are buying a U â€“ 12. Switching from an Emmons to a Day set up and switching the E to E flat lever should be challenging but simple once you get the hang of it. I would purchase in advance some long needle nose pliers, or large Kelly forceps, and a magnet to pick up fallen parts. No one regrets buying a Kline, but they do regret selling them.

Mike Greenberg · Post by **Mike Greenberg** » 2 Jan 2020 6:33 pm

I just want do you think each and every one of you for your input and assistance. When the guitar arrives next week, I will likely be reaching out. Thanks again.