E9 / A6 tuning

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

I like old school country and western swing and I found a way to play both with a simple S10 pedal steel.

I setup it like this and I wounder if other players use that kind of simple setup?

[Tom Gorr]

I permanently tune s9 as C# and raise to a D and have in the past detuned s10 to A but mostly for shortlived "experiments".

I will have to revist this because there was some allure to it if I recall

Thanks for the post!

[Ian Rae]

It may be worth pointing out that the first ever pedals were rigged up to give a quick change of tuning from E9 to A6, so what Jean-Sebastien has spotted is what occurred to Bud Isaacs a while back. Good company!

Because I play a B6 uni I've never really bothered with the A6 stuff that's sitting right there, but this topic has given me the cue to investigate, so thank you!

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

It may be worth pointing out that the first ever pedals were rigged up to give a quick change of tuning from E9 to A6, so what Jean-Sebastien has spotted is what occurred to Bud Isaacs a while back. Good company!

Yes Im really old school and to me swing is Bob Wills. I don't like the sound of C6 with pedals so I prefer playing A6 not using pedals. When I'm in A6 mode the only change I use is the Eb lever to get 9th chord (2 frets below the roots).

[Ian Rae]

I've had a bit of a noodle around and it's very interesting. My universal tuning omits the D string so I'm looking at pretty much the same setup. In addition to lowering the Es, I also have a lever which lowers the C#s to C, giving a IV9 chord (V9 2 frets up) and diminished chords as well.

I shall definitely pursue it as the voicing is different to B6 - surprising as it's only two frets higher up the board.

[Don Zeitler]

This might be what I've been lookin' for.I have tuned down to C# from D on string 9 but I've never tuned my B string to A. Looks interesting and makes a lot of sense. I will give this a try.

[David Devlin]

I've used this tuning for number of years, although mine is G6/D9. Basically because I arrived at it on a fender 1000 long scale that I couldn't get the G# up to A without breaking. After I went back to modern 10 string I kept the G6/D9 tuning. I also did this so I could play the older styles and it works really well for that. I have my 9th string B on the A pedal so it raises to the C# ( actual A to B on my G based tuning) Another thing I found useful was to lower my 10th string which is a G to E on a knee lever. This is nice for roots on minor chords but also very useful for guitar licks which is handy when you're the only instrumentalist in the band.

[Don Zeitler]

Hey Jean, what gauge string do you use for your 10 string A? Also what do you use for 9th string C#? I think I'm going to try this.

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

Hey Jean, what gauge string do you use for your 10 string A? Also what do you use for 9th string C#? I think I'm going to try this.

Just a standard E9 string set

[Michael Sawyer]

Jean Sebastian doesn't know it,but I learned alot from him when I first took up with the pedals.
I had been playing lap steel,with a band,tuned C6.
I saw his video on you tube," E9 sounds in C6"...
I dont know how to post the link to it; I wish I did.

[David Ball]

I tried this on the E9 neck of my older permanent (3 pedals E9, 3 pedals C6, not quite modern setup on the pedals but works here, no knees) this morning, and i'm enjoying it a lot. It's a nice solution, especially for an older more primitive guitar. Thanks for posting.

Dave

[Don Zeitler]

Thanks Jean! Been toying with this and I think I'm gonna go with it for a spell here and see how it pans out for me. I think I'll just retune strings 9 & 10 and leave the 2nd string where it is though unless I come up with a better way of doing it. Most of my E9 playing is on the first 8 strings anyway and I like low A a lot. Now I just gotta come up with a way to pull the C# up to D to get my 7th chord.I'm thinking that I could take my rod from string B (string 10) and put it on the new C# (string 9) to get there.That should work shouldn't it? Right now the 9 string D lowers to C# along with the 2 string that lowers to D/C#. Can I raise and lower with the same pedal? It would be my RKR raising string 2 from (D#) to D/C# and pulling string string 9 from C# to D. I've never did this before so I'm sure if I can raise and lower on the same pedal at the same time.

[Don Zeitler]

Thanks Jean! Been toying with this and I think I'm gonna go with it for a spell here and see how it pans out for me. I think I'll just retune strings 9 & 10 and leave the 2nd string where it is though unless I come up with a better way of doing it. Most of my E9 playing is on the first 8 strings anyway and I like low A a lot. Now I just gotta come up with a way to pull the C# up to D to get my 7th chord.I'm thinking that I could take my rod from string B (string 10) and put it on the new C# (string 9) to get there.That should work shouldn't it? Right now the 9 string D lowers to C# along with the 2 string that lowers to D/C#. Can I raise and lower with the same pedal? It would be my RKR raising string 2 from (D#) to D/C# and pulling string string 9 from C# to D. I've never did this before so I'm sure if I can raise and lower on the same pedal at the same time.

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

Jean Sebastian doesn't know it,but I learned alot from him when I first took up with the pedals.
I had been playing lap steel,with a band,tuned C6.
I saw his video on you tube," E9 sounds in C6"...
I dont know how to post the link to it; I wish I did.

Wow seems like I have been searching that E9/C6 sound on one neck for a while. Maybe I should start to just try to learn something!

[Norman Evans]

Here's what I've been using for a long time. Works really well for me.

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

Here's what I've been using for a long time. Works really well for me.

That setup look perfect to me!

[Kristian Frostad]

My setup is based on the same basic copedent, but i have some extra changes.
Posted the following in another thread regarding extended S10;

I've experimented a bit with extending the range and enabling some different open grip chord voicings.
This is where I've landed. My setup is 3x5.



The top eight strings are standard E9, but instead of D and B on 9 and 10 strings, I've ended up with C# and A.
These two strings are now equivalent to the 8./9.-strings A and F of the C6-tuning, enabling you to have 6minor and 4maj9 chord voicings as open grips.
With the AB-pedals down, they will now be the root and third of your A chord

The most quirky and interesting change is probably the LKV, which lowers the C# and A down to B and G#.
This is equivalent to the AB-pedal raises, but in reversed.
Instead of having low B/G# and raising them, they are now raised by default and you have to lower them instead.
It may seem weird but it's very easy to use and gives you quite a lot of nice open voicings. (On the LKV there is also a C#>C half stop where the A is untouched. The A>G# is enabled together with the C>B change)

One thing that's missing from this setup is string 2 lowering to C#, but I'd put that on a separate lever anyways, due to general dislike of halfstops.
The RKR is kind of a dominant 7 lever now. The 9 is raised and the 2 is lowered in a counterpoint fashion.

This setup probably wont work for everyone, but it has enabled me to get a little more range and C6 voicings without ruining the E9 completely. There are some cons, such as missing the simultaneous B>C# raises, but IMO the pros make up for it. YMMV
This LKV change would probably be even better in the 0.pedal position next to the A pedal.

Franklin shows the same kinda concept on the C6 neck in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdrZQYlv8oQ&t=11s

[Jim Pitman]

Check out John Hughey's licks on Vince Gille's "Honey I'll Take Texas". A good example of a western swing feel copped by playing the E9 neck in the A mod, ie pressing pedals A and B to get a 6th.
I Gotta wonder if he avoided using the rear C6 neck in the studio due to its' negative reputation with modern producers, yet the song called for that feel.

[John Polstra]

Here's what I've been using for a long time. Works really well for me.

Norman, I have a question about your RKR lowers on strings 2 and 8. Are you getting the half-stop on string 2 from the engagement of the string 8 lower, or do you have a separate half-stop mechanism on your instrument?

Here's why I'm asking. Your copedent is not too different from the top 10 strings of my 12-string universal. The main difference is that instead of lowering string 8 to D, I raise string 9 to D. However, I haven't found a way to get the whole-step lower from D# to C# on string 2. My string 9 B->D change is just too long of a pull to make it work. I am wondering if I could make it work if I switched to your method of lowering string 8 to D instead of raising string 9.

John

[Norman Evans]

John,
I have a dedicated half-stop for string 2. It works very good. Rittenberry.

Regards, Norm



Tuneable with the red tuner on the left.

[John Polstra]

That's neat, Norm. Thanks for the info!

John