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Topic: Blonde Bassman compared to black or silver |
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2019 5:23 pm |
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I’m in the market and have a few options. I don’t play at stupid loud volumes any more and a Deluxe Reverb is enough for most gigs. I have a choice right now between a 1963 6g6a or a 1971 Silverface...my guess is the blonde will be warmer and less scooped with less headroom?
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2019 6:40 pm
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| In my opinion, both would be excellent. If it's either/or and cost is not a consideration, I would choose the 6G6-A. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2019 6:43 pm
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Man, I would grab that 63 first if you can swing it.. You can always get a 71 or thereabouts, but those blondes don't show up every day anymore.. That amp could have either a tube or SS rectifier.. The SS rectifier might have a bit more clean headroom, but I would MUCH rather have the tube rectifier version.. They sound like heaven to me... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2019 7:01 pm
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I think this one has a solid state rectifier and not in the original cabinet so it’s priced accordinglyðŸ˜
How does it differ from a silver face?
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
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Posted 14 Dec 2019 8:39 am
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The Blonde has the capability of being more scooped in the mids than the Black or silver face. I actually turned the Bright switch on my Blackface Bassman into a "Blonde" switch, which converts the tone control into a Blonde circuit. As has been said already, the Blond would increase in value at a better rate than the silverface.
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Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso
Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100 |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2019 9:14 am
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| Dave Zirbel wrote: |
| I think this one has a solid state rectifier and not in the original cabinet so it’s priced accordingly😁 |
FWIW, I prefer a solid state rectifier for steel. The tube rectifier sag on the attack annoys me. It makes the amp feel a bit under-powered. My Mesa/Boogie Maverick has a switch marked "Vintage/Bold" that actually switches rectifiers. I leave it in the "Bold" (solid state diode bridge) position for steel.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2019 9:33 am
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The white-knobbed Bassmans (Bassmen?) have an extra gain stage in the Bass channel that lotsa guys really like. The 6G6-A is the first Bassman Amp with a solid-state rectifier, which in theory should increase its headroom over the previous GZ34-equipped models.
I have a 1964 (NF) black tolex, white-knob 6G6-B that I really like alot.
Does anyone know the difference(s) between the 6G6-A and the 6G6-B? Not a whole lotta info out there on the B-model. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 14 Dec 2019 1:42 pm
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First - with the larger amps, I'd go blonde/brownface for sure if you're talking anything close to the same price, even with the changed box as long as inside they were original and in good shape. More collectible, valuable, and sound better to me. Especially for guitar, these are classics. And I think set up properly they can sound good for steel too. I've had a few, none right now - closest thing I have right now is a brown-tolex/brownface Vibrolux (1-12") and it's beautifully loud and clean in a good way. Same amp Knopfler used for Sultans of Swing. Blackface and silverface Bassmans are, relatively speaking, a dime-a-dozen in comparison, value/collectibility-wise. I think part of it is relative rarity - lots of bf/sf Bassmans out there, not so many of the earlier amps. But I think part of it is sound.
To me, sonically the biggest difference between the white-tolex/brownface (and white-knob blackface) Bassmans and later blackface/silverface amps is that the earlier amps had more body and more of a "direct" sound, for lack of a better term. To me, the earlier amps sound better when pushed. Again, to me, the progression into blackface and then silverface Bassmans tended to be to get rattier and rattier when pushed. By this I mean more high-midrange clatter. I try not to push my blackface/silverface amps too hard. They are great in their own way, but they start to honk in that upper midrange when pushed hard.
The 6G6 is the GZ34/5AR4 tube rectifier blonde version. The 6G6A and 6G6B have solid-state rectifiers. Not a huge difference between 6G6A and 6G6B in terms of circuit. You can see the nominal circuit diagrams here -
6G6 - http://ampwares.com/schematics/bassman_6g6.pdf
6G6A - http://ampwares.com/schematics/bassman_6g6a.pdf
6G6B - http://ampwares.com/schematics/bassman_6G6-B.pdf
Earlier 6G6 (ca. 1961) is 8 Ohm for 1x12", later 6G6 (ca. 1962) and 6G6A/B are 4 Ohm for 2x12". There are other subtle differences in the layout, rough vs. smooth tolex, oxblood vs. wheat grill cloth, and so on. I think the general consensus among guitar players is that the earlier 6G6 tube rectifier versions, especially the 1x12", is better and more collectible/valuable. I know I prefer it, but one of my favorite amps ever is the 4x10" tweed Bassman and earlier blonds are closer to that sound to my ears. There was a gradual evolutions with Bassmans to keep them from overdriving the speakers. One way to deal with that is to cut some of the frequency range that causes the problems, more low-midrange. Another way is to give it a beefier speaker, and we now have lots of options to do just that.
As far as silverface amps go, it depends heavily on exactly which version you're talking about. Here are at least 6 versions used on silverfaces, some of which are basically blackface circuits - http://ampwares.com/amplifiers/fender-bassman-silverface/
Again, they were trying to clean these things up to try to make them better/cleaner for bass. Blackface/silverface Bassmans are still good amps but I think the market has recognized for a long time that the earlier tweed and blonde amps are better to most guitar players, which is the main market for these. None of them really had the balls for clean bass at loud volumes until they started getting into versions like the Bassman 100 and so on.
But another issue is the specific amp you're talking about. I have seen people ruin amps like this by replacing transformers, making circuit changes, and so on. But if I was faced with a blond vs. silverface Bassman decision with pretty stock circuits and not messed with too much except cosmetics, I'd go for blond every time if the money was remotely comparable. But that is just one man's view. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2019 2:07 pm
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Thanks for all that David! Most people I’ve spoken with are in agreement that the blonde is their first choice. I was leaning that way as well since I love my 62 Princeton so much.
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2019 3:38 pm
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| Dave Zirbel wrote: |
| Thanks for all that David! Most people I’ve spoken with are in agreement that the blonde is their first choice. I was leaning that way as well since I love my 62 Princeton so much. |
A 71 SF is a good amp.. however its a common Fender silverface easily obtained.. Even a "done over" blonde amp thats been recabbed is much more desirable, and will command a much better price and a lot more interest should you ever decide to part with it in the future.
I have sold totally rebuilt Fender amps in the past-Retolexed, re grilled, recornered, rehandled, all new innards and you know what? They sold for the same or even better money than beat up old "originals".. Amps are not like guitars except for the real collectible stuff from the 50's, early 60's.. reconditioning if done well, is not a detriment for many popular "players" Fender amps, especially for someone that intends to use it, not place it on a stack of other 60 year old amps to look at in a "music room". bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 15 Dec 2019 10:51 pm
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I also noticed another difference in the 6G6 as compared to the 6G6 A or B---the negative feedback resistor is 100KΩ on the 6G6; 56 KΩ on the 6G6 A/B.
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Emmons & Peavey |
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Posted 16 Dec 2019 8:44 am
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Of course there's the Presence control on the '63. 
...or did someone mention that already? |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 16 Dec 2019 9:25 am
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| All these electronic details are in the schematics. There are relatively small detail differences between the various 6G6 models, but major differences between 6G6x and the later blackface/silverface models. And they sound quite different to my ears. |
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Posted 16 Dec 2019 10:34 am
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
| .... and they sound quite different to my ears. |
Oh definitely...I've got a blonde all original '64 (head and cabinet)
with the white knobs
and the presence control. Totally different character than even
the later '65 I used to have. |
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