What to watch out for with used Carter Starter

[Mike Harris]

I've got the opportunity to trade a useless electric guitar for a Carter Starter. Yes, I'd rather be getting a Stage One but this won't cost me anything. When push comes to shove I think I've got a better chance of moving the Carter than the electric guitar.
So, I know the Starters can have issues. What should I be wary of when I'm checking it out?
Thanks--Mike

[Bob Carlucci]

I have repaired them, and typically most problems are easily fixed.. They have a small wood pedal stop that can come off or break, but thats a 5 minute fix. Typically the knee levers are fragile, and I have seen attaching parts get bent etc.. Again, nothing that isn't easily repaired, the biggest problems I have seen with them is typically they are bought, moved around without a case, abused, left in a corner, and are horribly out of adjustment, and dry as a bone.. Never had one through here I couldn't get in shape with a very few hand tools, some simple tweaks and adjustments and a little can of 3in 1 oil..
they are just really cheaply built, but once lubed and set up they can play ok, except for some of the knee levers being too stiff, and the knee stop feel is the worst I have seen on any pedal steel anywhere.. Actually they are a decent sounding little guitar, and the last one I had here stayed in tune quite well, once set up. btw, yes you want to trade the guitar for the starter NOW before the guy changes his mind.. Cheap guitars are everywhere, and no one wants them. Cheap steels are rare, and everyone wants them!.. bob

[Bill C. Buntin]

Mike, I did some field testing and demo work when the starter first came out. This was as a favor to several retailers and as some personal loyalty to bud and John. So I was not compensated for this. I say that so you know this is opinion based on experience alone.

At the time, I thought the starter was great for what it was intended to be. The first demonstration yielded good results. But it had minor issues. Hysteresis due to the changer I noticed. Not bad but sonically noticeable. Some drifting in the static or at rest tuning. Noticeable difference between playing a set and taking a break. I was constantly having to tweak the key head and fairly often making adjustments to some pulls.

Aside from this and the feeling of mushiness when pedals were down, the guitar itself is too light. I felt like it was jumping up and down off the stage while playing.

Tone wise, it was fine. It had a George l pickup I think.

I felt like the fret markings were a bit “off” toward the pickup end, somewhere along about fret 17 and up. John thought it was imagination, but I just detected it was off a bit.

Overall, not too bad.

I only offer the next statement for comparison.

Having demoed a stage one zum?? A much better product. Nothing against John and Bud because they were good friends of mine. In fact, I would not hesitate to play a job with a stage one. Excellent guitar.

Still, for the money, the starter is certainly a quality enough instrument to learn on.

Bill

[Jacek Jakubek]

Go for it!
I've read on the forum that some Carter starters have an issue with one, or more of the knee levers not feeling "solid" or maybe breaking (but, I've had knee levers break on my regular Pro Carter guitars too).
With a little basic mechanical tinkering ability, you can probably fix any issues on it.

[Mike Harris]

Well, this is all I need to go forward. Thanks to all of you for sharing your experience and opinions.

I'll update if the deal gets made.

[Bob Sykes]

+1 on the knee levers. This can be a wear/damage issue as well as the original design weakness. They come with a couple different PUPs. My original single-coil was prone to 60cycle hum and a bit brittle. George L. fixed that. The tuning keys likely have a lot of play in them. I replaced all with some equally cheap new ones. Original gig bag had zero padding so check for bumps and bruises if no case.

I'm coming up on 10 years with the one I got to learn on. I've played a ton of gigs with it (still do) and the only thing I have worn out is the matt finish off the pedals. They are smooth on the edges now. Routine maintenance has been a minimual lube 2 or three times. I'm slack with it.

Good luck. Have fun with it if you get it.

[Patrick Huey]

I've got the opportunity to trade a useless electric guitar for a Carter Starter. Yes, I'd rather be getting a Stage One but this won't cost me anything. When push comes to shove I think I've got a better chance of moving the Carter than the electric guitar.
So, I know the Starters can have issues. What should I be wary of when I'm checking it out?
Thanks--Mike

If I remember right one of the left knee levers used a screw head as a physical stop for the knee lever’s travel so because the brackets and what not we’re fairly easy to bend , that knee lever if it got bent just a little it would completely miss that screw head that was supposed to stop it’s travel and instead of a half step raise or lower (ever which one it was) you’d wind up with a raise or lower somewhere around Albuquerque lol. The screw was easily removed and replaced with something larger and more solid

[Donny Hinson]

"What to watch out for with used Carter Starter"

Those with unreasonably high prices!

[David Mitchell]

The Carter Starter comes with a good basic copedent for E9th but they can be modified with little effort. I did a mod on a Starter I had so you could raise strings 1&2 and lower the 6th string a whole tone. The stock Starter will only allow strings 2,4,8,9 to be lowered but the only thing that prevents all 10 strings to have lowering capabilities is the thin metal stop plate on the bottom of the body near the changer. I took a hack saw and carved out more slots for the strings I wanted to lower and simply added extra return springs and pull rods. The bellcranks are unmovable but nothing says the pull rods have to run straight with the body all the time plus you can add your own to the existing system as I did. I used Sho-Bud hexagonal cross shafts and bellcranks. I also put a complete set of standard telescoping legs on it to give it more weight to keep it from walking around. What I ended up with was the lightest possible E9th guitar I can buy that had all the changes I use and sounded quite nice for even professional jobs.
It's odd that Bud Carter built the changer on those to lower and raise all strings and then put a stop plate on them to prevent it. Don't make much sense other than it was an attempt to down grade the Starter as to not lure potential buyers away from more expensive Carter guitars. He was only a few dollars away from a guitar that could do twice as much but intentionally gave it limitations.
Good businessman I suppose. He definitely knew how to design and build great guitars.

[Patrick Huey]

The Carter Starter comes with a good basic copedent for E9th but they can be modified with little effort. I did a mod on a Starter I had so you could raise strings 1&2 and lower the 6th string a whole tone. The stock Starter will only allow strings 2,4,8,9 to be lowered but the only thing that prevents all 10 strings to have lowering capabilities is the thin metal stop plate on the bottom of the body near the changer. I took a hack saw and carved out more slots for the strings I wanted to lower and simply added extra return springs and pull rods. The bellcranks are unmovable but nothing says the pull rods have to run straight with the body all the time plus you can add your own to the existing system as I did. I used Sho-Bud hexagonal cross shafts and bellcranks. I also put a complete set of standard telescoping legs on it to give it more weight to keep it from walking around. What I ended up with was the lightest possible E9th guitar I can buy that had all the changes I use and sounded quite nice for even professional jobs.
It's odd that Bud Carter built the changer on those to lower and raise all strings and then put a stop plate on them to prevent it. Don't make much sense other than it was an attempt to down grade the Starter as to not lure potential buyers away from more expensive Carter guitars. He was only a few dollars away from a guitar that could do twice as much but intentionally gave it limitations.
Good businessman I suppose. He definitely knew how to design and build great guitars.

David,
He most likely wanted it inexpensive enough, and to do just enough to get a newbie started enough to get “the bug” and soon upgrade due to its limitations. Definitely a step up from previous starter models

[David Mitchell]

First upgrade should be learning how to play one. That will be much more of an upgrade than any $7,000.00 steel will do.


https://youtu.be/gT1TvjnlYHM

[Sean Borton]

IIRC... the earlier models had a really weak LKL lever which led to a "vice grip" fix many used. This was resolved in the later models. The later models also came with two adjusting legs, rather than just one.

FWIW, I've had my Starter for about 10 years and it is still going strong. I put a humbucking George L into it and about $5.00 worth of L-Brackets and set screws from home depot helped create some solid stops. I count my blessings in regards to tuning... mine has been as solid as a Telecaster. It doesn't drift or slip in any way. I can't stand the cheap tuners, but I'm afraid to change them with the stability I currently have.

LKR is my primary complaint... to get a nice feel I end up with too much travel, to get a comfortable travel it ends up too stiff. Some day I'll dream up a solution.

It's a secondary instrument for me... so I am in no hurry to upgrade just yet. I am still a bigger liability than the steel is

[Mike Harris]

Well, I'm learning a ton of useful stuff reading these posts.

I got the guitar yesterday--it was win/win as the other guy loved the very nice but hard-to-sell Strat with a Floyd Rose bridge.

My son came by today and showed me how to make adjustments. I'm intrigued by the mods suggested by David Mitchell and will consider that down the road. First I want to get it playing in tune and ready to roll.

Many thanks to all who contributed to this thread. This place is the best.

[Dustin Schrimpsher]

Guys, I’m really excited to read this thread.

I’ve been playing a Carter Starter since December 2019. I’ve played it in bars and in the studio. Mostly just adapting lap steel parts to the pedal steel. Still learning but having a blast.

I want to address a handful of issues with my Starter.
1. I want to make a new stop for the LKL, which stops at the moon if at all.

2. I want to improve the pedal response of at least Pedal 1. That is to say, it is mushy making it hard to control the speed of the bend either up or down

3. I’d like to replace the knee levers because these are just angled aluminum. This isn’t a big deal now but I’ve read that folks break these regularly. So not a big priority.

4. Heavier legs are a dream but that’s kind of expensive.

Thanks for all the info guys. And thanks for not just dismissing the Carter Starter right out of the gate. I know it isn’t a $3k steel but mine stays in tune and sounds pretty good. And I payed $900 including shipping and a nice hard case, cables, a bar, and a volume pedal.

If I can ever afford another E9 with 3 pedals and 4 levers on a more durable and/or elegant steel, you bet I’ll buy it. But for now, my Starter is working out pretty well.

-d
.

[Gene Tani]

4. You could try a small sandbag on the pedal bar just make absolutely sure it's not going to leak sand.

[Jamie Kitlarchuk]

I agree that the carter starter is fine for what it is. I leave mine set up at the bands jam space so i don't have to set up every time we practice.

"1. I want to make a new stop for the LKL, which stops at the moon if at all."

I simply swapped the round head screw for a larger flat head screw and that did the trick. The problem is the lever slips off the round head. You can also pick up a small mending brace or flat bracket and use that.

[Leo Grassl]

4. You could try a small sandbag on the pedal bar just make absolutely sure it's not going to leak sand.

I like the way your thinking Gene. Of course you'd have to carry a sand bag but I'll bet it would keep it on the ground.

[Gene Tani]

You can always search prior Starter threads and look thru Al Brisco's catalog of Carter parts.

(Don't know how many are relevant to Starters but:) On carter d10 i have these mods, the most important are sand bag, grip tape on pedals, and taking off Torx head screws, I really hate those things.

pedals: skateboard grip tape (basically, 80 grit sandpaper w/adhesive backing)
levers: 2x4" steel paddles
dog bones from Bill Liscomb+
straight pull rods

replace Torx head screws
sand bag on pedal bar

[Rich Upright]

If Carter made an airplane...I would NOT fly!

[Bill Lowe]

This has been around a while but I still enjoy watching it once in a while. https://youtu.be/gT1TvjnlYHM

[Tommi Toijonen]

I’ve been quite happy with mine for 10 years or more. Time flies....One of the knee levers broke the wood so I bolted it thru the cabin.

Sounds good, keeps in tune. If I just had more time to play it. (See the video link above...)

The legs could be less flimsy. Maybe somekinda extra bars between front and back legs would make it more stabile. Now it moves sideways a bit when I use knee levers.

[Alan Brookes]

I bought one when they first came out. I was never happy with it. I almost immediately changed the pickup. The frame was so lightly built that when you depressed a pedal the pedal rack bent. I was thinking of strengthening it, or just using the mechanism in a Pedabro that I was going to build. Instead, I sold it and bought a Sho-Bud, and the difference was like day and night.

It's no co-incidence that it picked up the nickname, the Carter Farter.

[James Sission]

If Carter made an airplane...I would NOT fly!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1JStQnaHq4o

Maybe it's not the guitar.

[David Mitchell]

I had a Carter Starter here for a while that I modified so I could drop my 6 string a whole tone and raise my first string for modern sounds. I just had to saw out two more slots in the stop plate, add a couple more return springs and reconnect the pull rods to the corresponding pulls. I sacrificed the stock RKL & RKR to do it. The Starter doesn't lend itself well to changing anything without some brute force work. The bellcranks are welded to the cross shaft but that all can be changed in a welding shop. It's really not worth the trouble modifying it. It's a good basic guitar in stock form and that's all it was intended to be. Light years ahead of a Sho-Bud Maverick.