Technique question

[Mark Epstein]

I am now 2 weeks into my journey of learning how to play. While I feel I will be able to make sense of this (eventually), I am struggling with one aspect of the right hand.

Having come from mostly 5-string Scruggs style banjo (and some dobro and fingerpicking guitar), I have alway anchored my right hand pinkie. I am trying to figure out if that is a 'normal' technique on psg.

I've seen videos where some people rest their pinkie on the 1st string and some have their hand floating above the strings. I'd like to get started in the right direction and could use some input from this great brain trust.

Thanks in advance,

[Andy Henriksen]

I think because the neck is so wide and you have so many strings, you can't really anchor your pinky or else you won't be able to reach certain grips on the bass strings...or at least not with ideal form. For me (and most others it seems) my right hand sort of floats back and forth depending on which strings I'm currently picking.

[Bob Hoffnar]

Problems I have run into with banjo technique on steel are that the Pedalsteel has way more strings so anchoring might not work the same. And on the steel to get a full tone it is important to get a bunch of pick on the string. Banjo players tend to pluck at the string instead of the push through the string technique steel players tend to use. Banjo players tend to pick next to the bridge , steel players tend to pick farther up the neck. To make these changes you may need to adjust your hand shape.

[Bill Terry]

I do it, not that I'm the greatest player around, but anchoring that right little finger helped me with picking accuracy a lot.. and I have no problem 'unanchoring' a bit when I shift to get the lower string grips, I use those a lot.

I'm curious to see how many may respond to this post that 'do' anchor with that finger. I'm betting it's not that uncommon.

BTW, this guy seems to have a bit of an 'anchor' with that right little finger, and I don't think it hurt his playing all that much. Is this a great photo or what???

[David Ball]

I've been primarily a banjo player for the past 45 years or so, but playing both pedal and non pedal steel as well.

As Bob mentioned, I've had to adjust my hand shape. In fact, I don't even use the same picks for banjo/acoustic guitar as I do for steel. The fingerpicks are bent differently to accommodate the different hand positions I use. But, I've never anchored my pinky while playing steel the way I do on a banjo. I palm block on steel, and I think that having any finger anchored would make this type of blocking very difficult.

Finally, getting across 10 strings or more instead of 5 means moving my hand into different positions for different grips. Banjo doesn't need that. Anchoring would make this very difficult too unless your hands are a lot bigger than mine!

Dave

[Fred Treece]

I don’t think “anchoring” is the right word for how Buddy Emmons used his right hand little finger. A video is much more instructive than a still photo -
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LIe28-4fFzg
It functions primarily for blocking and muting, moving with the hand as the hand moves back and forth across the strings. Sometimes it appears more straightened out, sometimes somewhat curled. Form following function.

[Pete Burak]

Jeff Newman would tell you that when you look down at your right hand, it should look like you are holding an egg, and your fingers should be at a ~45-degree angle up from the strings (in the pic above, Buddy is pretty much doing both of these things).

[Bill Terry]

I don’t think “anchoring” is the right word for how Buddy Emmons used his right hand little finger. A video is much more instructive than a still photo -
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LIe28-4fFzg
It functions primarily for blocking and muting, moving with the hand as the hand moves back and forth across the strings. Sometimes it appears more straightened out, sometimes somewhat curled. Form following function.

Totally agree, but it's definitely not as tucked as some guys are.. Check out Tommy White, he really curls it under tight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_FCcxrZKzU

I think it's a lot like the flat hand argument, there are more than one 'acceptable' ways to position the right hand.

Edited after seeing Pete's post. Yeah, that's the 'flat hand isn't good' thing. I have to say I agree with the Jeff's recommendation. I had a very flat hand for years and took a lesson with Ricky Davis probably 15 or more years ago. He watched me play for a couple of minutes and immediately had me work that right hand into a more arched position, like what Jeff recommends. It took me a long time to get that hand position into a habit, kind of like re-working a golf swing. It took a while to overcome the muscle memory, but it made all the difference in the world for me.. much better pick angle, i.e. better tone.

All that said, there are some really fine players that have very flat right hands, I'm convinced there aren't many absolutes.

[Gene Tani]

I also played a lot of banjo before steel. Now i mostly look at my Ome and say I should play sometime... I play steel planting my forearm on the armrests on my steels pad or bolt on armrest, I think that works pretty well ergonomically for me.

Doug Jernigan also "sort of plants" his ring finger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoWcEsqsqs&t=470s

But i think you shouldn't just copy any player without questioning whether you are getting maximum relaxed mobility and the correct muting/blocking of notes when you need to cut them off (or muting bass strings when you're sliding up the neck)

The other thread about muting/blocking is a good read, you'll see there are many ways to do this, mostly w/picking hand but bar tracking is important and you can use the bar hand thumb too: https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=350716

The 2 sources of info mentioned there, Jeff Newman's books and Paul Franklin's lesson series, are excellent places to start (just read the thread about not sending jeffran money in the "For Sale Music" forum

[Bob Carlucci]

As of this time , right now, play where the hand is comfortable. You are too new in the process to be fumbling with hand positions that other players use and are right for THEM.. At this point, play what feels best.. As you get experience your grips and hand positions will change to whats best for you.. When you become more proficient, yes you can make changes of course, but allow most of them to come naturally.. There may be a time, when you notice something is wrong and you will have to force an adjustment, and relearn a hand position, wrist position etc.. However for now, its too soon to be doing that in my opinion unless your positioning is totally whacked out, but without seeing you play, none of us can make that determination.. get used to the instrument, and get comfortable playing positions with your hands feet, knees etc.. Refinements and adjustments will come naturally, and the ones that don't come naturally can be learned.. Only my opinion- others may disagree.... as for "anchoring the pinky", some do, some don't, and others like me do it when its appropriate, and feels right... bob

[Justin Emmert]

If you want to hear it from the master, see here and check out the videos. Pay attention to Paul talking about webbing his fingers and how they relate to pick blocking. I think that will give you to answer what to do with your pinky.

https://paulfranklinmethod.com/tackling-blocking/

Not getting into the debate of palm vs. pick blocking. To each his own. Blocking is a fundamental of steel playing. Start learning it corectly and practicing it now so you don't have any bad habits to work yourself out of in the future. Every time I sit down at my steel, the first thing I play is a pick blocking exercise, which serves a learning tool and a warm up.

[George Kimery]

I played banjo before steel and was trying to play steel with my right hand in a flat position like I did on banjo. Two different instruments and requires two different techniques. I attended many of Jeff's classes in Nashville. One of the first things he taught me was that you turn your right hand to the right until you can't see your 3rd and 4th knuckles. You then play with your thumb and 2nd finger exactly like snapping you middle finger. The first finger is seldom used except for those occasions when the voicing requires 3 notes. If you watch videos of all the great players this is the way they do it. Also unless you are going for a chicken pickin' or Mooney sound, don't play near the bridge. Move your hand up and down the neck until you find the sweet spot on your guitar that sounds best to your ears. Mine is a around the 18th fret. I don't stsy glued to this position and my hand does move around a bit, but I'm generally in this area on most songs. It's all about sound.

[Sam Werbalowsky]

Other banjo player here (shout out to the other Ome player). On a banjo, I feel like I pluck the strings more, whereas on a steel you are striking through them. I have a flatter hand relative to the strings on a banjo.

There is much more whole-hand movement on a steel, and anchoring would flatten my hand out, which makes palm or pick blocking more difficult in my opinion. So I think there is actually less control when anchoring on a steel.

The right hand took me the longest to get used to coming from banjo.

[Mark Epstein]

Wow, what great information in these responses. Thanks so much.

Yeah, I get it that the hardest adjustment is going to be the right hand position.

So much great help in this forum.

[Gene Tani]

also look at "Steel Players" and Steel on the Web" forums, lots of good material there. Bruce Bouton and Rob Haines DVDs are good.

For youtube channels/playlists,

https://www.youtube.com/user/Steelpicker/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/buddyemmons/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/Singlpilot/videos (Mickey Adams)

https://www.youtube.com/user/FriendsPickin/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/zanekingmusic/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/yendoggy/videos

[Ian Worley]

...I'm convinced there aren't many absolutes.

There is a lot of good advice here, but this is the best quote in this thread for a beginner to embrace. I would even lose the "m" in "many". This doesn't directly address your question, but it's a really good idea to watch, listen, learn and understand how and why different players do what they do, and with that, develop a style that is both effective and complimentary to your individual physicality.

There are a number of world-class players who've been mentioned here already, but watch some of David Hartley's videos, he is an absolute master of traditional palm blocking, a fairly extreme version of the "holding an egg" or "snapping your finger" hand shape. Now go watch some JayDee Maness videos, he plays with a very flat hand, more of a pick blocking style, but another absolute master. Watch Paul Franklin, he falls somewhere between those two in his hand shape and how he blocks. I think Paul's approach is the most accessible for a new player, though others I'm sure will disagree.

There is no one "right way", but there are specific reasons why different players techniques work effectively for them and the styles of music they play. You don't want to spend endless hours developing a technique because it's easy, do it because it's effective, even if it's really uncomfortable at first.

[Ben Feher]

Make a hand shape (grip) where you’re grabbing strings 10-8-6 that you can play and then palm mute repeatedy without really chasing your hand position. Practice, being clean about palm muting and not ringing strings. Start to alternate that shape with a shape for 8–6-5. Be comfortable going back and forth, it feels kinda like chord shapes but it’s right hand not left.

Once that’s comfortable find some grips using 6 and 3 with thumb and middle finger, the pointer finger can alternate grabbing 5,4. 6,3 are octaves so will accommodate some banjo style rolls so try playing a roll then palm muting.

Practice alternating between the low skip grips (10-8-6 + 8-6-5) with roll patterns on 6,5,4,3 being sure to palm mute when possible. This motion should sound musical and pay attention to where you’re pinky wants to go. If you’re like me planting just won’t let your hand change shape between these positions but it will offer some guide during the rolls and some muting while using “grips”.

There isn’t a right answer just don’t get discouraged by all those dang strings that always keep ringing until you mute them.

[Drew Pierce]

Lots of good info in this thread for a beginner to learn from. But there are a couple of statements I would disagree with. First, that banjo players tend to play close to the bridge and steel players play further away. In fact, how far you pick from the bridge depends on what sound or tone you want for the particular song. Your right and left hands need to work together. For example, as your left hand moves up the neck, your right hand generally should move toward it -- away from the bridge. That's because as you shorten the distance between your left hand (bar position) and the bridge, the brighter the tone becomes. To compensate, the right hand should move away from the bridge toward the left, maintaining a more even sound. Unless, of course, you want a particularly bright, edgy sound. This is generally true of both banjo and steel.

As for the OP's question about the pinky, it is clearly shown by various videos above there is no one correct way to do it. Personally, I have generally used the pinky kind of like Buddy and Lloyd Green, which is to say as sort of a reference feeler, but not necessarily an anchor.

[Gene Tani]

Here's a good PF video showing him adjusting right hand position a lot (and *of course* everybody wants to learn "Together Again", right?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fScolqR-_Y