Tuning Knob for Lap Steel Guitar

Sur Singh · Post by **Sur Singh** » 14 Oct 2019 9:42 pm

The tuning knobs on my lap steel Guitar are crumbling. The guitar is a Gibson Ultratone, probably 40-50 years old. When I try to tighten the strings, the plastic knob crumbles in my hand. Picture is attached below.

Please help on how the knobs can be replaced?

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 15 Oct 2019 3:04 am

This link includes both the parts and a tutorial on how to replace them. I am NOT saying that any one of these is the correct replacement part. This I do not know. You will need to confirm this by comparing measurements, or hopefully someone who is an expert in the Gibson tuners can comment.

https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Pa ... Knobs.html

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 15 Oct 2019 7:39 am

Actually, the guitar in the photo is a Gibson Century-6 that was manufactured from 1947 to 1951.

I've replaced several of the white plastic buttons on old Klusons with StewMac replacement buttons and have achieved satisfactory results. Keep in mind that, no matter how much flushing, cleaning, and lubricating you do, you'll still have 70 year-old tuning machines. Some will work like new, but others may not.

A far more elegant solution is to replace the original Klusons with modern Gotoh SD90s, which are far superior to the originals and fit in the same footprint. (Be sure to save the originals.) Should be good to go for another 70 years or so.

p.s. My favorite lap steel is a well-worn late '40s black Gibson Century-6 that's sure not a looker, but plays and sounds like a million bucks.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 15 Oct 2019 7:49 am

I agree with Jack.

Erv

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 15 Oct 2019 8:56 am

Replacing the buttons requires more time, attention to detail and can be prone to error. Replacing the whole tuner assembly is much quicker, easier and pretty much fool proof.

Sur Singh · Post by **Sur Singh** » 15 Oct 2019 8:21 pm

Jack Hanson wrote:Actually, the guitar in the photo is a Gibson Century-6 that was manufactured from 1947 to 1951.

I've replaced several of the white plastic buttons on old Klusons with StewMac ...

A far more elegant solution is to replace the original Klusons with modern Gotoh SD90s

So my guitar is not an Ultratone

that's a bummer. Its like the lion cub found out that he is actually a household cat.

How is the Century 6 supposed to compare to an Ultratone? Price wise?

Oh, and how do you know that it is Century 6? I looked at a lot of images on the web and roundish shape on the treble site near the knobs suggests Ultratone.

Back to the knobs: Firstly, what is Kluson? What plastic buttons should I order from StewMac?

How complicated is the process to install new knobs? Would I have to unscrew the tuners shanks from the guitar body?

Sur Singh · Post by **Sur Singh** » 15 Oct 2019 8:24 pm

Jon Light wrote:This link includes both the parts and a tutorial on how to replace them. I am NOT saying that any one of these is the correct replacement part. This I do not know. You will need to confirm this by comparing measurements, or hopefully someone who is an expert in the Gibson tuners can comment.

https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Pa ... Knobs.html

Thanks. That is a great site. I just don't know which one to get. I left a message with them. Also, need to learn how to install new ones.

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 15 Oct 2019 9:39 pm

Surinder Singh wrote:Firstly, what is Kluson? What plastic buttons should I order from StewMac?

How complicated is the process to install new knobs? Would I have to unscrew the tuners shanks from the guitar body?

The Kluson Manufacturing Company of Chicago, Illinois was one of the major suppliers of tuners for Gibson, Rickenbacker, Fender, Valco, Harmony and dozens of other string instrument manufacturers from 1925 until they folded in 1981. The brand name has since been reacquired and Kluson products are presently being manufactured in Asia.

The correct StewMac buttons for your Century are the white #0113 below:

https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Pa ... Knobs.html

StewMac produced both a video tutorial and a data sheet on replacing the plastic buttons. Scroll down in the listing above to view. Personally, I use a slightly different method. PM me for more info if you like.

Differentiating between the Century and the Ultratone has been a source of confusion for decades. The differences are more cosmetic than structural. Electronically they are exactly the same. The quick and easy way to identify the original versions is the Ultratone was white and the Century was black. The excellent book Gibson Electric Steel Guitars 1935-1967 by A.R. Duchossoir will tell you everything you want to know and more about Gibson lap steels.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 16 Oct 2019 6:45 am

Yes, it is a Century, I have one also.

Erv

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 16 Oct 2019 8:06 am

And this is an Ultratone:

Aside from the white lacquer, it features very fragile hinged Plexiglas covers for both the headstock and the pickup/bridge area, different buttons on the Klusons, and a slightly different fretboard.

Frank James Pracher · Post by **Frank James Pracher** » 16 Oct 2019 9:24 am

I'm for replacing the buttons.. I've done many of these over the years, most of the old tuners have plenty of life left in them.

Sur Singh · Post by **Sur Singh** » 16 Oct 2019 7:55 pm

Frank James Pracher wrote:I'm for replacing the buttons.. I've done many of these over the years, most of the old tuners have plenty of life left in them.

Thanks. The tuner seems to be fine, just the plastic button/knob is bad.

Can I just put the knobs on the shanks without unscrewing the tuner itself?

Sur Singh · Post by **Sur Singh** » 16 Oct 2019 7:58 pm

Erv, Jack. Thanks. The difference between Ultratone and Century is little subtle. Color is different and where the strings and tuner is, something is different.

Is the Century considered lower value or less desirable?

Sur Singh · Post by **Sur Singh** » 16 Oct 2019 8:00 pm

Jack Hanson wrote:
StewMac produced both a video tutorial and a data sheet on replacing the plastic buttons. Scroll down in the listing above to view. Personally, I use a slightly different method. PM me for more info if you like.

Differentiating between the Century and the Ultratone has been a source of confusion for decades. The differences are more cosmetic than structural. Electronically they are exactly the same. The quick and easy way to identify the original versions is the Ultratone was white and the Century was black. The excellent book Gibson Electric Steel Guitars 1935-1967 by A.R. Duchossoir will tell you everything you want to know and more about Gibson lap steels.

Hello Jack,
Thanks for your help. I will order from Stewmac and watch the video. I'll PM you.
Regards

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 16 Oct 2019 8:18 pm

Surinder Singh wrote:
Frank James Pracher wrote:I'm for replacing the buttons.. I've done many of these over the years, most of the old tuners have plenty of life left in them.
Thanks. The tuner seems to be fine, just the plastic button/knob is bad.

Can I just put the knobs on the shanks without unscrewing the tuner itself?

Yes, no problem. You can melt, glue, or do both. You may have to drill out the tuner key some, my '41 EH150 had pretty fat shafts. Get spare ones to practice with, they are cheap! When I used a torch I took the tuner strip off the guitar, it's very easy to do.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Oct 2019 7:10 am

Surinder,
Yes, the Century is kind of considered the economy model Ultratone.

Erv

Gene Tani · Post by **Gene Tani** » 17 Oct 2019 10:11 pm

I've gotten vintage parts for banjos, guitars etc from Bob Smakula: http://www.smakula.com/VGP.html

You can try other vintage dealers like Gryphon, Carter's, Elderly. If none of them have the buttons, I can give you other dealer names (there's dozens).

Sur Singh · Post by **Sur Singh** » 18 Oct 2019 6:10 pm

Gene Tani wrote:I've gotten vintage parts for banjos, guitars etc from Bob Smakula: http://www.smakula.com/VGP.html

You can try other vintage dealers like Gryphon, Carter's, Elderly. If none of them have the buttons, I can give you other dealer names (there's dozens).

Thanks, Gene. The names are very useful. I looked through many of these useful sites.

Sur Singh · Post by **Sur Singh** » 6 Nov 2019 8:04 pm

Hello Friends,

I am very happy to report that the knobs on my guitar got fixed. I got tremendous help from this group and especially from Jack. My deepest and warmest THANKS!!!

I ordered the knobs from StewMac. (Ordered few extra as backup, but did not use them in the end.) Jack gave a lot of great advice on how to install them. Once I started doing this myself I realized that I required more skill and more tools than I had. I went to a local Violin shop and they agreed to do it for me.

The Violin repair people held the knob in hand, used a drill to drill inside. Then heated the metal shaft with a flame and inserted the knob. They filled it glue for the part that didn't melt. The knobs themselves look great on the guitar now. They don't look out of place or anything, they look new.

I couldn't have done it without your help. A huge shout out to Jack for his patient and encouraging words.

S

PS: Now I have to find the best strings. I have to find something which will work for my Indian music tuning. I can't translate my requirement to Western tuning requirement; I just don't know Western music notation. Anyways, if anyone has an idea, please let me know. What is the canonical string gauge to use on this guitar? I could start with that. (Maybe I should post a separate thread on this topic.)

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 6 Nov 2019 10:51 pm

If the tuners still work good keep the instrument tuned I vote for just replacing the tuner buttons, it's not that difficult a project if you take your time with it. Here's a link to guide you through the process

https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_R ... knobs.html

Brian Evans · Post by **Brian Evans** » 7 Nov 2019 5:44 am

If you know the notes you need to tune your guitar to, there are resources that can guide you to string gauges. The range is very wide, so there is no "standard" string set that is kind of universal. You could know your pitches in Indian notation, in frequency, there will be ways to interpret the answer.

Sur Singh · Post by **Sur Singh** » 7 Nov 2019 9:03 am

Regarding strings: After doing some research on correspondence of Indian and Western notes I figure that I want to tune my first string (thinnest string) to either G or G# when struck on the open. The second string is tuned to E or E#. Rest of the strings are not too important since I would play them sparingly, but I would tune them to the following notes (starting from thinnest to thickest): G-E-C-G-C-G or G#-E#-C#-G#-C#-G#.

Based on this would you be able to recommend an appropriate string set?

Also, I'd like to get a good deep full sound with sustain. I am not sure if this is something of a concern when selecting strings, but I want to stay in the safe range.

Thanks again.

I also don't want to damage the guitar with too much tension in the string.