A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words".

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 22 Oct 2002 5:56 am

There is no substitute for visual acuity,

aural acuity

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 22 Oct 2002 6:53 am

Bob H.

I absolutely do not agree with your concise repartee. Nothing in the world could ever measure up to good vision. Diminished hearing ability is very common in the real world, particularly if one has been treated to rock era decibels that unsuspecting victims were subjected to, before the realization dawned on them, that something was amiss.
The highs don't register as well, and other sounds are lost amidst the din of a high volume band. Crashing cymbals have taken their tolls on steel guitarists. There is a great need for a caring person to address this abuse, and request that the band members become aware of the risks.

Musicians naturally listen to their own music, for the great pleasures provided in music played well. There is no need to remind someone that they should develop a good aural ability, to replace visual acuity.

Bill H.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 22 Oct 2002 8:38 am

Bill,
In applying your logic to another art form maybe you should be working on some sort of sonar sensing device to assist photographers.

Bob

Stephen LeBlanc · Post by **Stephen LeBlanc** » 22 Oct 2002 9:35 am

FWIW...don't be offended...this is just my opinion...

Bill, you should probably just let your invention speak for itself...if players gravitate toward it and like using it, it will become popular.

The more you argue for it the more silly it seems.

You might want to familiarize yourself with the many great blind musicians of the past and present...you might be amazed...they actually play in tune.

I'm just joshing...I think.

Stephen LeBlanc · Post by **Stephen LeBlanc** » 22 Oct 2002 9:41 am

One other thing...once again in MY opinion, Bar slants are not just for show, my Dad did bar slants all the time because they felt very natural to him. No matter how many Pedals and Knee levers you have...the most musical, soulful and immediate tool a player has is the bar.

OK, I'll leave this alone now...no insult intended...just can't keep my mouth (fingers

) shut.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 22 Oct 2002 10:11 am

Wow!
You guys are still using fretboards?!
I thought we all went to stenciling the frets right onto the strings, like we discuseed in that one thread that one time.
I'd buy those "Fret Rider" string sets with the frets already marked on each string, but they're so darn expensive.
I'll just stick to my stencil and my trusty can o' spray paint, thank you.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 22 Oct 2002 12:31 pm

I had promised earlier to show pictures of the "Lucky 7", which has proven to be a great assist in preventing 3rd string breakage. I haven't experienced one snapped string since the device was adapted. This photo shows the "Lucky 7" profile.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 22 Oct 2002 1:45 pm

Hey Bill,
How about a picture of the Go'Lo, and maybe a few good shots of your steel from the front, top, back, under the hood, ect!
Thanks!
~pete b.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 22 Oct 2002 2:43 pm

Bill Hankey,

Your inventions are very interesting, obviously the result of a lot of experimentation. The guitar in the photos guitar looks like a test-bed!!

The Lucky 7 is a great idea, reducing the angle at which the string sits. I suggest making up a bunch and selling them at next years convention in St. Louis.

Best of luck!

Drew Howard

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www.newslinkassociates.com
www.drewhoward.com

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 22 Oct 2002 5:12 pm

Bar slants are traditionally for show. They coasted on out of town with the inception of pedals and knee levers.

I beg to differ! Bar slants sound very different from pedals and knee levers. I often use a slant to get the "F" position in ballads simply because it sounds better.

It is often necessary to slant the bar to get harmony notes for which there is no pedal installed. Do you really think that Lloyd Green does all of those slants for show???

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 22 Oct 2002 8:44 pm

Bobby Lee,

I base my statement on what I saw with my own eyes. A time or two ago, I saw "Scotty" point a time tested finger at Buddy Emmons, when he did his now famous 360 degrees twirl, while playing a slow ballad.
I thought to myself at that time, that the move was showmanship. I realize that this type of entertainment is provided for the attendee's viewing pleasure, and doesn't serve to make the melody line sound better. As for Lloyd Green, who in their right mind, would question anything that he does while seated at his steel guitar? I'm one of his most faithful fans. I'm comfortable with the thought that Herb Remington may have the leading edge when it comes down to bar slanting. His bar slant moves seem to be endless. Bob, thanks for allowing me to state my opinion. Your friendship means much more to me, than whatever happens to be right or wrong.

Bill H.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 22 Oct 2002 8:55 pm

So, Bill, has Lloyd ordered one of these gizmos yet? What a shame, all this genius used for evil. You said you dozed off, why am I not surprised? There's a lot of money in clothespins, Bill. Look into it.

Brad Burch · Post by **Brad Burch** » 23 Oct 2002 4:50 am

I, for one Bill, would also love to see some more pictures of your guitar. If you have time please post some more pictures of the undercarriage, your experiments, etc.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 23 Oct 2002 9:45 am

Brad & Pete,

Pictures will be forthcoming soon.
Thanks for your interests.

Bill H.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 23 Oct 2002 10:55 am

Hi Bill,
I think the steelplayers world appreciates your surch for new frontiers in Steelguitar- building and playing very much! Thanks for that.
I wonder:
The H.U.F. is a good way to visualize your position when playing, but how good you can see it, you need to depend on your ears, that's called playing on pitch. Not the visual one, but the audible one. This can be trained by building in a visual handicap (not seeing the fretboard right) right?
To me this way of seeing where the pitch is, will make an excuse, not on perpose, for not training your ears.
Playing by ear ( Yeah, Joe Wright!!

)will make you a musician, and by the time your ears are damaged by to loud cymbals, you won't be able to hear music and to play it! A blind man can't paint, and a deaf musician can't pitch. If the times will ever come a loose my hearing, I will become diskjockey in a house- discotheque, there my ears don't matter anymore..

The lucky 7:
I think it's a good concept, and I shure hope you use the good material for that!
With al the tension on a string. (if this things comes loose, it slams the teeth out of your mouth, hate to think what it will do with a .22 plain, brrrrr

)
Good luck with your mission and thanks!
Johan[This message was edited by Johan Jansen on 23 October 2002 at 12:00 PM.]

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 23 Oct 2002 11:02 am

I'm ready to place my order, Bill. Where do I send the check?

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Fessenden SD10 - Mesa/Boogie amps

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 24 Oct 2002 2:10 am

Michael H.,

I'm thinking more about producing a video of the HUF to offer proof of its reliability. In the meantime, I'll be checking out a number of crafts personnel, who could best serve my interests. Easy on the eyes is the desired end result, with a more relaxed style of playing the steel guitar. Thanks Michael for your offer. Both "Lucky 7", and the HUF will be treated to modifications, that will enhance their adaptability to modern steel guitars.

Bill H.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 24 Oct 2002 7:01 pm

Bill, I think your upright fretboard is a great idea, especially for the higher John Hughey frets that are so close together and so hard to differentiate under your bar and hand.

I'm sure some people have learned to play steel blind. Plenty of people play piano blind. But the top concert pianists watch the keys closely when they play. So do the top steel players (although they might be able to play some with their eyes closed if they wanted to). I think we all make the final adjustment by ear and vibrato. But the eyes help us get in the right vicinity quickly. Your HUP will make that even easier.

I suggest you make some HUPs with clear plexiglass. Steel lovers love to watch the bar of a good steel player. We already sit down way in the back while six-stringers dance around out front. Let's not put another barrier between the steel player and the audience.

How does the Lucky 7 work. I can't see it good in the pictures. But if it cuts down on string breakage I want one.

Stephen LeBlanc · Post by **Stephen LeBlanc** » 25 Oct 2002 8:11 am

But the top concert pianists watch the keys closely when they play. So do the top steel players (although they might be able to play some with their eyes closed if they wanted to). I think we all make the final adjustment by ear and vibrato. But the eyes help us get in the right vicinity quickly. Your HUP will make that even easier.

I have to say I strongly disagree. If a top concert pianist appears to be looking at the piano keys for reference...he/she just appears that way...in actuality they could play it blind folded...they know the pieces they're playing better than you can imagine.

I've known a few Top Steel Players...I would argue they look at the fretboard more because they prefer to look at their Steel over staring at other perfomers on stage or into space.

Take it or leave it, that's my opinion...learning the fretboard is a big part of learning to play the steel but at some point you've got to move beyond that. There should be a point where you are no longer LEARNING the fretboard but just KNOW it...when you know it you don't need to see it.

So, like I said earlier in this thread...the HUF could be a good learning tool for the beginner but it should not be a crutch and should be designed to be easily removed once you've gotten past using your eyes to play.

If you use your eyes to play you'll always be one step behind, for one thing your brain has to work harder.

The first guitars had no fret markers...Violins, Violas, Cellos, Basses still don't have them...how did Stravinsky know what to play? hehe

P.S.
FWIW...I played classical piano from the age of 5 before getting bit by the Jazz bug in my teens...I often look at my piano keys when I don't have anything to look at but NEVER to determine what to play...I think this should be every musicians goal...to know their instrument well enough to play it automatically by feel. I also play Dobro and guitar using the same approach.[This message was edited by Stephen LeBlanc on 25 October 2002 at 09:22 AM.]

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 25 Oct 2002 1:09 pm

"I've known a few Top Steel Players...I would argue they look at the fretboard more because they prefer to look at their Steel over staring at other perfomers on stage or into space."

I would suspect that the majority of the readers of this Forum are not in the category of "Top Steel Players".

"but it should not be a crutch and should be designed to be easily removed once you've gotten past using your eyes to play."

I think the word crutch may be a bit harsh. Once again, I think there are many, many weekend warriors and bedroom pickers on this Forum who will never achieve a level of proficiency whereby one would no longer need any visual aids while playing. (I am right at the top of the list in that category!)

Perhaps the steel guitar builders should start building their guitars with removable fretboards.

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 27 Oct 2002 12:47 pm

David D.,

Reviewing your past reply has prompted me to respond to your suggestion to make the hands visible. In actuality the player's hands rest far above the level of HUF. The audience has a clear view of his bar hand, and right hand attack at all times.

I had to put down this erroneous notion, before it becomes an accepted hang up among those who find the HUF interesting.

Bill H.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 27 Oct 2002 3:22 pm

I've waited until now to make any contribution to this post. Altho' I sincerely hope it doesn't offend anyone, I can't help but believe it likely will, some how, some way....

First, I admire ANYONE with the ability to see beyond "what is here"......and further, for their creativity and motiviation that continues to drive them to a successful conclusion of their dream.

More power to you and your dream, in all sincerity.

From many years of experience......I would strongly urge you to solicit the most knowledgeable experts in our land to view, examine and "play" your invention.

Whence that is done, use "THEIR words of praise" for the promotion of your invention and not merely your own. Remember what people told Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, the Wright Brothers, Wm. Piper, Sr. and William P. Lear when they first pitched their "invention"? Even though these great inventors KNEW they were right........few believed or supported their initial views. That often is the reason "personalities" are used to promote and help sell virtually everything from entertainment to T.P. The public listens to famous people heaping praise while turning a deaf ear toward a true inventive expert stating facts. When that occurs, the inventor often ends up in a defensive stance.........

I believe Bobby Lee, Stephen and Mr. Hoffner each made sound responses to your own comments. They were non inflamatory and were direct to the point. I somewhat share their views.

ANYONE that can say they honestly "BELIEVE" that bar slants are reserved merely "for show" and in essence, "went down the road......." with the advent of the pedal steel guitar.......I truly believe is badly misinformed. IMHO. And who really cares about Buddy Emmons ability to SPIN his BAR while playing a tune. So WHAT! A trick is a trick! I admire him and all he has done musically and for the steel guitar.

Would you really have the @#*~ to personally tell the Jerry Byrd's, Billy Robinsons, Kayton Roberts, Howard Whites, LLOYD GREENS, and Jeff Newmans, and others, etc., of this world, that with the introduction of pedals, their style, technique, skill and masterful playing abilities are "out of date", contribute nothing to music, and/or were
"a waste of time"???

Are you merely trying to sell a product here via the Forum.......or, are you attempting to demonstrate to all of us with many years of forward and reverse slanting behind us, that "WE" collectively don't know what we're talking about but you do? Now, I ask you........

I've played pedals since 1956. When, might I ask did you start playing pedals?

I slant as required/desired on Bigsby, Emmons and/or Rickenbacher....and will continue to do so.

I learned to visually sight and position my bar accurately on the guitar during my very first year of instruction.

By the way Pete, will those special strings you're using, work only on pedal steel guitars or can they be used on my antique,
laptop, table, bottle slide, electric Hawaiian, rock and roll model, steel stringed guitar? And, what's the cost of a set? Do they iluminate in dark club settings or is that extra?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 Oct 2002 8:30 am

I find it odd that the HUF isn't marked at the standard places (3rd, 5th and, 7th and 9th frets). Is there a reason for that, Bill?

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 28 Oct 2002 6:52 pm

Bobby Lee,

Keep in mind that the fretboard in
the photo is merely a prototype. I fully intend to produce a fretboard that will be one of quality, and fine workmanship. What you see in the photo, are "tree" positions for relevant chords.

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 28 Oct 2002 7:35 pm

Ray M.,

I will respond to your reply, and I will do so soon. For now, I'll just say that bar slants are a means to quell a raging determination to overcome, and defeat the difficulties involved in
reaching for melody lines. Trading bar slants for string pulls does not fare well with me.

I've used pedals for over a quarter century. My 4 & 5 string grab melody lines would not be possible using bar slants. That is the style played on my homemade steel guitar.

Bill H.