New member, trouble with learning to block

Dave van den Berg · Post by **Dave van den Berg** » 16 Jan 2006 11:45 am

Hello,

Just joined the forum after reading for sometime.

I bought a Carter Starter in september 2005 because I've been listning to country a lot lately.
Before that I was more into rock and playing rockguitar.
Then I discovered Vince Gill, Brad Paisley, Redd Volkaert etc. great guitarists.
The more I listened to country the more I got interested in playing the steelguitar.

Now after four months I have recorded (or butchered...) my first song with pedalsteel.
It's a Brad Paisley cover of She's everything.
You can listen to it here: She's everything Login= dave, Password= luister
Please let me know what you think of it, all tips are welcome.
Recorded everything myself with the computer running Cubase SX because I couldn't find a backingtrack of the song.

I have trouble with blocking the strings with the palm of my hand.
It's seems to take forever before the palm mutes the strings after I've picked them.
I think the problem lies with the guitar hand trying to pick the strings in a guitar way.
How far should you bend the fingers to assume a good picking postion?

Thanks,

Dave[This message was edited by Dave van den Berg on 16 January 2006 at 11:51 AM.][This message was edited by Dave van den Berg on 22 February 2006 at 10:18 AM.][This message was edited by Dave van den Berg on 22 February 2006 at 11:54 AM.]

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 16 Jan 2006 12:13 pm

That sounds pretty good, Dave, the best part being your choice of what and when to play (or NOT play, as the case may be).

As for the blocking, I'm certainly no expert on technique (I imagine that some folks would say that I do it all wrong, I only know what works for me), but IMHO palm blocking is not necessarily for everyone or every instance - often the only way to get the desired effect is to block with the picks - this requires that you END each note, as well as begin it, with the fingers - pick/block, pick/block, etc. - two strokes of the finger per note.

Okay, now somebody that actually knows the "right" way to do things can take it from here....[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 16 January 2006 at 12:14 PM.]

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 16 Jan 2006 12:41 pm

Dave first off,, welcome to the forum,, this is really a great place.
Dave G. kinda excluded me when he said some one who really knows,, LOL.. but that's basicly the way I do it also, works for me. Once again welcome!
Larry

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Emmons S/D-10, 3/5, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 16 Jan 2006 12:43 pm

My biggest breakthrough on palm blocking was when I started relating the mechanics of it to the action of a piano. The damper mutes the string until the hammer is activated, lifting off the string just a moment before the hammer strikes and returns to mute the string when the key is released. Somehow this idea one day really spoke to me and has made a big difference in my natural timing of how I rock & lift my hand while picking. I have no idea if this is just a personal quirky way of looking at it or if it may be helpful to anyone else.

Dave van den Berg · Post by **Dave van den Berg** » 16 Jan 2006 2:30 pm

Thank you for your kind replies.

I'm studying the Bruce Bouton Pedal Steel Guitar DVD.
Great material to begin with I think, he also shows pickblocking and palmblocking.
But he says that the hand must make small
movements if you want to get faster.
When I pick and block the movement is too large.
I can see my whole hand go down so I figured that it starts with picking the wrong way.
Problems is that I've been playing guitar for over 19 years now.
So it's hard to abandon something that has become a second nature.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 16 Jan 2006 2:31 pm

I've gone through learning to block several times because at the beginning I had no idea how it was done.
Looking back, one of the best excercises I did was to place the hand (palm) on the strings first and then experimenting on how little I would need to raise my hand to let the strings ring. I believe that one of the "secrets" indeed is to keep that distance between the hand (palm edge) and the strings as small as possible.
So, it goes like this:
Place your hand in a blocking position on your strings but with the thumb, index and middle finger grabbing strings 5, 6, and 8. First keep that position and just squeeze the strings a bit without striking them. then do the same thing but strike the chord , still without letting it ring (palm still blocking), in other words you are now playing a "muffled" chord. Once you've done that suffieciently to develop a feel for it, try to raise your palm just so little to allow the chord to ring (just experiment with it) and then kill it right back again... until you gain natural control.
What this will do is to level the hight of your picking fingers in relation to your palm. This constelation will have to become a constant standard over time. Just like your left hand needs to know where your right hand's at, your palm needs to know at what distance your fingers are from the strings and backwards.

Hope this helps... J-D.

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 16 Jan 2006 3:25 pm

Welcome to the forum Dave..I love it when a guy introduces himself with an example of his efforts..I could hear good taste in your playing.You know, already, when to lay out and when to hammer down.Some people never learn that.Your on your way my friend..Good luck.PJ

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 16 Jan 2006 6:14 pm

I thought it was all good, Very nice guitar too.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum SD12U, Carter D10 8/8, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Jonathan Shacklock · Post by **Jonathan Shacklock** » 17 Jan 2006 3:26 am

Hi Dave, Bruce Bouton's demonstration is very good and I've also found the exercise on p.50 of Winnie WInston's book is excellent. After months of practising it a few times a week I still can't play this fast piece completely cleanly but the side effect is I can now block mid-tempo stuff without really thinking about it.

I thought your recording of the song was very good. If I can offer a personal opinion I thought you over-used the volume pedal. Think of it more as a sustain pedal that you can occasionally employ as a swell effect (a killer effect if used very sparingly). I've read that advice many times on the forum and elsewhere. Good luck!

Dave van den Berg · Post by **Dave van den Berg** » 17 Jan 2006 9:36 am

Thanks for the tips and compliments.
All I did was trying to copy the original pedalsteel lines on the recording.

I had to re-adjust my playing on the guitar as well.
Country music has a whole different timing and scale usage than the other styles I play.

I couldn't find a lot of songbooks for pedalsteel, I got the Easy songs booklet from Mel Bay.
Are there any other/good songbooks available?

Jonathan Shacklock · Post by **Jonathan Shacklock** » 17 Jan 2006 1:03 pm

Hi Dave, DeWitt Scott's "Anthology of Pedal Steel Guitar" has loads of older songs with notation and tab, comes with a CD. Also his "Deluxe Method" book which you can get through the forum. I don't know if there's a book out with the newer country stuff.

Dave van den Berg · Post by **Dave van den Berg** » 17 Jan 2006 2:18 pm

Great, I've just looked at the index of the book on Amazon.
This will be my next purchase.
Thanks.

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 17 Jan 2006 4:40 pm

Dave, I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but have you tried
to doubble your ring finger under and block with it? That's the way that came natural to me.

Terry

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Mullen D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 Jan 2006 8:11 pm

Dave welcome to the forum.

Nice job, no negative comments on the sound at all.
It sounds like you have good monitors,
and got what you intended on tape. COOL!

The steel parts fit, not too pitchy or stuttering, etc.
I notice no blocking problems audibly.

Any way you can block and get it done for the right sound
is fair game.
right hand palm or finger blocks.
Bar hand top, 3rd finger or thumb,
or even bar-lifting back palm (some don't like this)
and trailing finger mutes for bar tip trills etc.

ANYTHING that works to get it done
for your sound, is right for you.

Just keep woodshedding.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 January 2006 at 09:13 AM.]

Mark Fasbender · Post by **Mark Fasbender** » 18 Jan 2006 12:40 am

Check out Jeff Newman's Alpha Right Hand video. Only deals with palm blocking, but its really informative. Helps get a good tone tooooo.

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Got Twang ?

Mark

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 18 Jan 2006 3:30 am

If you do a search under blocking you'll find lots of good advice in the archives. It takes a lot of practice until it becomes second nature. I thought I'd never get it for a while but I got better (though I'm still not consistently great at blocking even after almost 20 years!)

Dave van den Berg · Post by **Dave van den Berg** » 18 Jan 2006 3:36 pm

Thanks for all the good advise.

I got a very long and detailed email from Nic du Toit, so I'm going to try it out.
As I read it, the pickingfingers are my problem.
The fingers aren't bend enough to get my palm closer to the strings.
It seems very logical.
I just picked like a guitarist (old habbit).

On the recording I got help from my steelguitar strings, they were a little old.
Got 3 new sets, finaly after ordering in November.

Any steelguitar teachers in my area?