Tuning Suggestions for modified Leavitt

Dom Franco · Post by **Dom Franco** » 14 Dec 2007 7:13 am

I have played around with the standard Leavitt tuning and it is fun, but I find it limited in some areas. I have an 8 string lap steel that I want to set up with a new approach.

I am looking for a basic C6th or A6th tuning with a few additional notes with the Diminished intervals provided by the Leavitt tuning. But I'd like to keep most of the features of the 6th tuning because it is so intuitive (Majors, minors, sixths, etc.)

Has anyone out there tried this?

tHANKS
Dom Franco

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 14 Dec 2007 12:44 pm

I have experimented with it a little. Without much success I might add. For my bottom 6 strings I used Jerry Byrd's C6/A7 tuning (E-C-A-G-E-C#). For my first two strings I had the Leavitt notes of D and Bb. I suspect my lack of success was do to lack of perserverance and enthusiasm. I'm still optimistic that the best attributes of the two tunings can be combined. I've kind of been planning to get back to it. But you know.......one thing after another. Good luck. Be sure to let me know if you meet with significant success.
Oh, by the way, there is a rather long thread on this already. I can't remember whether it is on the old nonpedal section or here. Can't remember what I called it either. "Leavitt C6," maybe?

Ambrose Verdibello · Post by **Ambrose Verdibello** » 14 Dec 2007 2:15 pm

To get Leavitt chords I use (Low to High) on 8 string: Bb C# E G A C E b. The high b is a half step below the 3rd string C. The middle six strings is normal C6/A7. Strings 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, and 1 are the Leavitt tuning but transposed down a minor third. You get all the C6/A7 you may be familiar with, plus the Leavitt chords (with the negative aspect of a wide gap between to two highest voices of that tuning.)

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 14 Dec 2007 4:52 pm

Dom, I've got one that might suit you very well. Take your standard 8-string A6, and retune strings 7 and 8 a half-step sharp, giving you (lo-hi) G Bb C# E F# A C# E. You gain four-string diminished, 13th, 13b9, and dom7 chords (and lose the bass root note, and bass minor triad, on the "tonic" fret). You keep pretty much all your slants.

This is pretty close to what Ambrose suggested, but 3 half-steps lower, and I keep the high 5th interval on the first string. So the bottom five strings have Leavitt intervals, but it's still basically a 6th tuning. And a real easy retune back to A6. (Or you can do the same deal with a high C6...)

I tend to think of this tuning as A13/F#7-- it's also been called A13b9. Billy Hew Len used it a lot.

--Steve

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 14 Dec 2007 11:46 pm

See also the 8 string lap steel chromatic thread. I mentioned over there that part of the problem I had with my efforts at combining C6 and Leavitt was that with the chromatic Leavitt strings on top they were a long ways from the other Leavitt strings. I have considered that putting them on strings 7 and 8 might work out better.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 15 Dec 2007 9:02 am

Do a forum search for Don McClellan and his B6/Leavitt tuning. He may have it written out as C6/Leavitt for easier understanding. Or I have it backwards!

Dom Franco · Post by **Dom Franco** » 16 Dec 2007 6:30 am

Thanks to all of you...
I am trying out Stephan Miller's suggestion:
(lo-hi) G Bb C# E F# A C# E

It's very cool. I have my A6th and all my usual chords and licks, but with the addition of the diminished chords on the lower strings!

I used gages: 52,42,40,32,26,22,17p &15p and it is easy to change the lower strings to several other notes including of course the basic A6th.

This forum is the best!
thanks
Dom

Joshua Dyer · Post by **Joshua Dyer** » 23 May 2019 10:29 pm

Yeah, I know this thread looks long-abandoned, but I thought I'd put in my two cents.

I've been fooling around with 8 string (low to high) Bb C# E G A C E b, the same tuning mentioned by Ambrose Verdibello above. It's really the same as Don McClellan's B6/Leavitt also mentioned in the thread, transposed so you have a C6 core instead a B6. Don has a Youtube video in which he talks about the tuning in the comments, calling it the Hawaiian Leavitt tuning, which is how I learned about it.

I've been having a great time with this tuning trying to learn jazz for steel guitar. I've been amazed at all the chords I can find, including plenty of altered chords. The first shortcoming I've found is there are sometimes not enough voicings to give you a variety of options for comping. This tends to be the case with some of the altered chords (#11, b13). When I was just beginning I didn't think this would be an issue, but that was because I didn't realize how important these chords were in jazz. If I were to get a 10 string one day, I would focus on how to give myself more voicings for these chords. Fortunately the tuning does well with the b9 chord (probably the most common altered chord in jazz).

As for the rest of the chords, there are plenty of dom7, M7, m7, dim, half-dim voicings. All of this with the caveat that I rarely add the root notes, since I want to be able to play in an ensemble where the bass player will presumably be tackling the roots. I do find, given the layout of the neck with the C6 mostly on the high strings and a full diminished chord on the low strings, that sometimes its hard to find lower voicings for the m7 and M7 chords on a straight bar. If you're ok with sparse chords (2/3 note voicings) for Freddie Green style comping, you should have no problem to find those lower voicings with slants, but I haven't gotten deeply into this aspect yet. I know Mike Neer has looked into these kind of voicings on another C6-based tuning.

The problem of separating the upper two strings of the Leavitt tuning bothered me until I stopped using finger picks. I initially took off the picks to get a mellower "jazz" tone, but I found this also allowed me to engage the ring finger of my right hand, which I started using to grab that 1st string. It was far more awkward trying to grab that string with fingerpicks using my middle finger. Something about the hand position for palm blocking and the big stretch made the fingerpick come in at the wrong angle. I kept trying to bend the fingerpick to compensate, but could never seem to get it right. Dropping the fingerpicks also opened up some useful four-note voicings, again, by recruiting the neglected ring finger.

The only other thing worth mentioning is that I think overall the tuning does come in a bit too high. I can understand by Don moved it all down a half step, and I can even envision taking it down to Ab6 or an A6 to get the chords more into the sweet spot for comping. This would make it the same as Stephen Miller's recommended tuning, except for the 1 string.

For the time being, however, I have really enjoyed this tuning. I feel like I am making progress towards my goal of learning jazz. A few times I got scared the tuning wasn't going to let me do what wanted. But all it took was some closer study of the neck to realize I had more options that I thought. Once I get the basics down I may try to transpose it down a bit, or move it onto a 10 string, but for now, there is more than enough to work with as I slowly transition into the world of jazz.

Dom Franco · Post by **Dom Franco** » 24 May 2019 5:44 am

Wow... this thread has been raised from the dead! (2007)
Back then I was experimenting with 8 string tunings. Soon after this I moved to 10 string, 12 string and finally 13 string lap steels. I had to build my own instruments to facilitate the new tunings. What I ended up with is my A6th Extended tuning. Low to Hi: E G# B C# E F# A C# E G Bb D F# with the top strings being "Re-entrant" (G Bb D F#)

David M Brown · Post by **David M Brown** » 24 May 2019 6:04 am

Stephan Miller wrote:Dom, I've got one that might suit you very well. Take your standard 8-string A6, and retune strings 7 and 8 a half-step sharp, giving you (lo-hi) G Bb C# E F# A C# E.

--Steve

I'm pretty sure that's one of Billy Hew Len's tunings...works well!

Joshua Dyer · Post by **Joshua Dyer** » 25 May 2019 2:38 am

Dom, I checked out your Youtube channel. You really put that tuning to good use! I also enjoyed your singing. You've got a great voice.

I'm trying to reason through your tuning. In some ways it is a natural extension of the Hawaiian Leavitt concept (a 6th tuning merged with a diminished chord, plus a reentrant string to complete the notes needed for the Leavitt). The way I see you've extended it is by adding a diminished triad (different the other diminished chord). This makes a lot of sense and is something I've pondered to get some additional dom7 voicings, but I wasn't sure how feasible it would be. You've also done something very interesting by actually interspersing the 6th chord and diminished chord by using a lot of reentrant strings, rather than simply stacking them.

It took me a while to see you still have all the Leavitt notes. Basically, you need three minor thirds followed by two major seconds. You've got it, but the high note is an octave below: G Bb C# E F# (G#), and it's a bit scrambled due to the reentrant strings.

Am I getting close to your reasoning?

Gene Tani · Post by **Gene Tani** » 25 May 2019 6:16 am

Good info all, thanks

Using a fingerpick on the ring finger isn't too hard but the pinky doesn't take them very well (I found out by playing banjo i wanted my index fingernail free for strumming so moved the fingerpicks over one finger).

Also i had a small brain impulse when looking at a Chapman stick, which has 5 bass strings tuned high to low from the left and 5 melody strings tuned high to low from the right, that a similar arrangement could be possible. So on non PSG, one octave of c6 low to high from the left and another octave of something low to high from the right on a 10 string. I think this would give a more level string surface across the top. But i'm still learning c6, haven't done anything w/Leavitt, diatonic, Alkire etc tunings

Dom Franco · Post by **Dom Franco** » 25 May 2019 6:29 am

[/quote] Joshua wrote:
PostPosted: 25 May 2019 2:38 am Post subject:
Dom, I checked out your Youtube channel. You really put that tuning to good use! I also enjoyed your singing. You've got a great voice.

I'm trying to reason through your tuning. In some ways it is a natural extension of the Hawaiian Leavitt concept (a 6th tuning merged with a diminished chord, plus a reentrant string to complete the notes needed for the Leavitt). The way I see you've extended it is by adding a diminished triad (different the other diminished chord). This makes a lot of sense and is something I've pondered to get some additional dom7 voicings, but I wasn't sure how feasible it would be. You've also done something very interesting by actually interspersing the 6th chord and diminished chord by using a lot of reentrant strings, rather than simply stacking them.

It took me a while to see you still have all the Leavitt notes. Basically, you need three minor thirds followed by two major seconds. You've got it, but the high note is an octave below: G Bb C# E F# (G#), and it's a bit scrambled due to the reentrant strings.

Am I getting close to your reasoning?

I don't how much "reasoning" I did... But after Trying the diminished notes on the bottom, I tried them on the top and liked that better. After that I just kept adding strings to get an Augmented triad, and later I wanted the low "E" like a standard guitar for some licks and bass runs. So I added the 13th string. So I have settled on this tuning for a few years now and it really gives me everything I need.

Don Crowl · Post by **Don Crowl** » 25 May 2019 1:42 pm

Hi Dom
I suspect it might not be your preference due to the experience you have with A6 but I have experimented with the standard Leavitt for years & settled into a standard 6 string Leavitt with an D# & F on top. That provides a lot more options for an 8 String. In my case I found it matched a lot of chord positions used in my Bb6 Universal pedal tuning. I've used that extended Leavitt tuning for many gigs & it works well for me. I also like the option of getting Augmented chords by slanting.
Maybe you would find tuning my 8 string set up tuned down half a tone and then you would have many of your A6 positions in addition to many D13th positions [if I am remembering right]. Best wishes for developing what you want.
Don