C pedal problem

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 28 Apr 2019 7:10 am

An old problem Iâ€™m trying to solve again:

On my Mci s10 (Emmons setup) the C pedal raises strings 4 and 5 a whole tone. Problem is that I can never get a full tone raise on the fourth string, E to F#, always short in about ten cents (I tune my Eâ€™s 3 cent sharp, but still i need 7-8 cents to reach the desired F#).

What is noticed is when I reach a certain point in the pedal travel, the lowering finger spring start to streach.. an obvious fault.. so I tried to shorten the spring to make it stronger but it didnâ€™t help, also Iâ€™ve tried different springs (and in the past different string gaughs). Do you guys think itâ€™s in the spring only, and I should maybe shorten it more, or there are more issues that can cause this problem..?

Thanks!

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 28 Apr 2019 7:35 am

Just a thought; you should be using a .014 for the 4th string. Using a heavier string might cause your problem.

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 28 Apr 2019 10:24 am

Yes Iâ€™m using 14

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 28 Apr 2019 11:47 am

Tightening the spring more is the obvious solution, springs weaken over time, but there could be other mechanical issues at play too, scissor binding, etc. If you over-tighten the spring it will affect the feel and operation of the lower and may not really correct the underlying problem.

Before you shorten the spring further, you could do a test by simply wiring the scissor in place temporarily so that it can't move, overriding the spring. You can then see if this corrects the raise issue or perhaps illuminates a secondary problem. The lower scissor should never lift off the stop during a raise, if there is something else binding that is causing the issue this should help you figure out what it is

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 28 Apr 2019 12:37 pm

Is this a new issue since a string change or has the guitar always been this way?

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 28 Apr 2019 12:42 pm

...sounds like a problem of not enough travel. Loosen the pedal stop so that it can pull the string further. After this, string 5 will be sharp with the pedal pull, so you'll need to re-tune it.

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 28 Apr 2019 1:03 pm

Jerry Overstreet wrote:...sounds like a problem of not enough travel...

Lengthening the travel will just allow it to pull the lowering scissor further off the stop. When a raise is pulling the lower scissor off the stop it is a self-defeating operation no matter how much travel the pull has

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 28 Apr 2019 1:34 pm

Does 10 cents short sound in tune?

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 29 Apr 2019 3:19 am

Craig A Davidson wrote:Is this a new issue since a string change or has the guitar always been this way?

Yes, always been this way.

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 29 Apr 2019 3:47 am

Ian Worley wrote:Tightening the spring more is the obvious solution, springs weaken over time, but there could be other mechanical issues at play too, scissor binding, etc. If you over-tighten the spring it will affect the feel and operation of the lower and may not really correct the underlying problem.

Before you shorten the spring further, you could do a test by simply wiring the scissor in place temporarily so that it can't move, overriding the spring. You can then see if this corrects the raise issue or perhaps illuminates a secondary problem. The lower scissor should never lift off the stop during a raise, if there is something else binding that is causing the issue this should help you figure out what it is

At least one time when I tried replacing he spring with a hard wire it helped to fix the problem.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 29 Apr 2019 10:40 am

Rani, try backing the 4th string tuning nut completely off and retune it. It may be pulling too far due to overtuning. If it is the gray MCI I sold you it was not doing that when it was shipped. A lot can can happen in three or four years. I would first slowly press the C pedal and see if it pulls to pitch then starts going flat. Overtuning will cause it to drag the lowering finger. Also check very carefully to see if a broken string end might be hung in the changer. Email me at rollermusic@cox.net and I will help you correct it. (For sure!)
Jerry

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 30 Apr 2019 4:31 am

Thanks Jerry and everybody
All you have mentioned have been tested already. Few years agowhem I got the guitar it was Day setup, Iâ€™ve changed it to Emmons setup, maybe I didnâ€™t arrange stuff well enough, there was other changes I did in the Copedent as well.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 30 Apr 2019 7:34 am

Email me Rani, we can fix it.
Jerry