Looking for first pedal steel - any red flags on this one?

[James Lewis]

Hello, all. I am looking for my first pedal steel to learn on. I play regular guitar but am ready to make the jump.

This pedal steel seems to be in my price range: https://reverb.com/item/18051307-vintag ... -woodgrain

However, it won't do me any good if it doesn't work or requires a rebuild to become a functional instrument.

Can you take a look at these and let me know if there's anything I should watch out for? I've done a bunch of searches and read about the best candidates for a first pedal steel, but this one is a little trickier since someone made it.

edit: I wasn't sure about how well the pedals worked on this guitar and didn't go through with it. Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread and wrote in. I found a used GFI Expo X1 online and it should be here next week. The seller said it worked perfectly but I contacted a couple local pedal steel players locally and found someone who may be able to fix it if something goes wrong.

[Howard Parker]

fwiw, I'd stay away with custom home builds. Where are you going to find parts?

Also, even today's defacto "student" guitars should have 4 knee functionality. The current learning materials will be geared to that configuration.

ymmv, my .02, etc.

h

[Dennis Montgomery]

I bought a custom-build-some-guy-in-his-workshop-no-return-policy pedal steel about 4 yrs ago. $800 and I thought I found a great deal. Biggest pedal steel mistake I ever made. Wouldn't stay in tune, cheap parts, poor workmanship, etc...the kind of problems you won't see until it arrives. I eventually gutted it, refinished it, turned it into a console steel and sold it for about 25% of what I paid.

IMHO - keep looking

[Tony Glassman]

There are so many reputable used and new options available in the pedal steel market that I would recommend avoiding these home-builds.

Think about it - If you were shopping for a car, would you consider purchasing a cheap one that was cobbled together in someone’s garage?

[Paul Wade]

Here is good deal. I started on a maverick
https://reverb.com/item/21675861-custom ... edal-steel

P.w

[John Haspert]

James, welcome to the world of glorious music. IMHO, if you already play just about any musical instrument and have a good sense of tone etc., you will likely appreciate having a PSG that has a moderate to good level of staying in tune, stability, potential expandability as your playing progresses. The advice given to me when I started my journey was to go with a known brand, able to be serviced, available parts et al. One other piece of advice was to avoid "Student Instruments" yes you save some up front money but they can be limited in expandability (as in more pedals or knees)and may be more finicky to keep in tune etc. There are a lot of good builders out there. While you may not be in the market for a new D 10 Fessy, GFI, MSA, Mullen, Williams, Justice, Excel, Show-Pro et al., Your budget and conscience need to be your guide. As you are in the Grand Republic of Texas, you may want to reach out to someone like Herb Steiner to get his views. He is a Forum Member here and a great guy. Good Luck in your quest.

[Larry Baker]

You should consider a Zumsteel Stage One. very reasonable price and a great guitar for not a lot of money. Doug is a great guy that builds the guitars in Branson, Mo.

[Rich Upright]

I agree with everyone here...stay away from home built models, and you want at least 3 pedals & 4 knees; that's all you will ever need.

Here's a bit of advice I give to guitarists wanting to learn PSG. Pedal steels aren't like guitars, where if you got a '58 Strat, it's worth 100 times what a new one is worth. With 1 or 2 exceptions, such as Emmons push pull, or MSA; the newer the steel, the better. And, the more expensive. You are paying for a precision mechanism here. Mainly because PSG is a highly mechanical device, and the newer builds are far superior than anything from the 50s or 60s. Fender & Gibson make great guitars, but you would NOT want a Fender or Gibson steel. Stick with names like Emmons,Zum,Mullen,Sho-Pro,Rittenberry,Justice, etc. You can't go wrong, and your re-saleability will be better if you decide it isn't for you.

[Jack Aldrich]

When I started to play pedal steel, I rented a S10 3/2 Emmons and got the Winnie Winston book. It was a great way to get started, but I quickly realized that I needed the 3rd knee. So, after about 3 months, I took my Income tax refund up to Red Rhodes' shop in Hollywood and got a 3/4 ShoBud ProI, which I played professionally for 10 years. I traded it for a D10 8/4 ProIII, and later a Carter D8 8.5 which I play now. My advices is try to rent a student model so you can get a feel for a pedal steel. btw, I still miss my old red ProI. It's somewhere in Oregon, I believe.

[James Lewis]

Thanks everyone. I do have a serious vintage bias, and it makes sense that pedal steels are different enough that it might be a mistake to try to get by on an old clunker at first

Have been looking for a Stage One but they’re bought up so quickly once they’re available!

I will be in Nashville next weekend, I hear there is a PSG shop you all talk about a lot - Bobbe? Is that his name? I will try to make it over there and try one out if they let me.

By the way, when I find a PSG I will need to make sure it is a 10 string setup for E9, right? I gather that changing the tuning from C6 or something will require a completely different setup, which I am trying to avoid until something breaks.

Also, I’m a rock and roller and won’t be messing around with swing or anything too complicated, but I do want to be able to pull off a pure PSG sound without a bunch of effects - do I still need four knee levers for that?

For reference, I would like to be able to pull off something like Ben Keith or Ken Champion from Illinois’s pedal steel part in this song, but it might be too complicated to start out with: https://youtu.be/UFc6bxL1vJo

[Bobby D. Jones]

I would pass on this one. First thing, Only 1 knee lever, I would suggest at least 4 knee levers, Even 5 knee levers would be better, So You can be learning the guitar and practicing, Instead of worrying about having more knee levers installed.

The wood in the cabinet of the steel does not look like Maple. If you enlarge the photo's, The wood has wide porous annual rings, Looks very Red Oak to me.

I would suggest a commercial common name guitar.
If you need parts they will be easier to obtain them and get it back playing proper. MSA, Emmons, Sho-Bud, Derby or Sierra for starts.
Good Luck in this adventure.

[Jim Palenscar]

I would agree on passing on the listed guitar as home built models can be a bit touchy. I don't agree that you need 4 knee levers. A tremendous amount of music can be played on a guitar w 2 pedals and 2 knee levers- especially considering that this is the first foray into the instrument. There are so many folks who get into it and then bail for a number of reasons that buying something with more than one needs w/o really knowing or having a pretty good idea about your direction with it can be overkill. I'm saying this because I see it frequently and always try to treat my customers as I would like to be treated. If someone has the cash and always wants a really good instrument- that's another story but for someone who has always wanted to do it and now wants to test the waters- a decent guitar that stays in tune w 2 and 2 can take them far down the road- and if they get to a place where they are wanting more- fantastic!!

[Johnie King]

Pretty much a very easy decision just get on Doug’s Zum stage one waiting list by the time it’s ready it should fit into your budget.
Know if you want a used steel there’s not much for a grand.
BMI used Steels are very good choice for the budget minded very easy too maintain an parts are available from Don at BMI.
I don’t recommend a student steels they sometimes bring as much money as a good used
BMI or Msa an Dekley or Sho Bud.

[Jack Hanson]

Dissenting opinion alert!

Although I would hesitate to recommend the instrument in question as the first pedal steel for a rank beginner, I really don't see all that many "red flags." It appears to have started its life as one of those early S-10 Emmons that were built with six floor pedals, before multiple knee levers, at least with any semblance of standardization, came into vogue.

I certainly am no expert, but I don't really see many, if any, Sho-Bud parts. The pickup, perhaps? It's a mystery what happened on top and why it has that neck and fretboard installed in lieu of its originals.

Underneath, it looks pretty much like an old push/pull. Until the recent introduction of aftermarket push/pull bell cranks, there were (are?) several hundred dollars worth of scarce Emmons parts under there.

As many above have noted, this instrument could be a real dog. But there is also the potential that it could be a wonderful instrument. Anyone who knows their way around underneath a push/pull could probably make a decent player's instrument out of it. I would be hesitant to pull the trigger without a close, in-person evaluation, however.

I also agree with Mr. Jim that you don't need a boatload of pedals and knee levers to make great music. The older I get, the more I come to realize less is often more. The one pedal guitar in my collection that gets the most seat time nowadays is a hot-rodded butt-ugly GS-10 Bowlin' Ball with three on the floor and a lone LKR to lower the Es. Not much to look at, but it plays okay and sounds just wonderful.

[Donny Hinson]

I agree with Jack. The push/pull changer and what looks like early Emmons pedals/rods/endplates makes me think this is an Emmons "Black Rock" that someone has made a new body for. Unlike everyone else here, I wouldn't count this guitar out for learning, since the mechanics aren't home-brew stuff.

Unlike many players, I can play a 3+1 all night long without stuttering or cursing. Plenty of good music can be played on something like this, and I'd say it's probably worth that, since the shipping is free.

[Richard Sinkler]

Heck, if I had the bucks, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. If it was a real dog, it could probably be parted out to recover most if not all the cost.

[Howard Parker]

I rarely dissent with dissenters but.....

You guys have knowledge and approach this with the eyes of folks that have been around for years (decades).

Look at it through the eyes of a rank beginner who wants a solid, no issue guitar to start with. Look at it through 2019 eyes with available instruction/free instruction via YouTube. When someone says "Use the knee that raises strings 4&8" and you don't have said knee.... That's a real downer.

fwiw...

I will stand down now.

h

[Dennis Montgomery]

As many above have noted, this instrument could be a real dog. But there is also the potential that it could be a wonderful instrument. Anyone who knows their way around underneath a push/pull could probably make a decent player's instrument out of it. I would be hesitant to pull the trigger without a close, in-person evaluation, however.

That's frequently the problem with these kinds of instruments on Reverb, they're sold "As-Described and cannot be returned" so you won't find the problems until it's too late

[Donny Hinson]

I rarely dissent with dissenters but.....

You guys have knowledge and approach this with the eyes of folks that have been around for years (decades).

Look at it through the eyes of a rank beginner who wants a solid, no issue guitar to start with. Look at it through 2019 eyes with available instruction/free instruction via YouTube. When someone says "Use the knee that raises strings 4&8" and you don't have said knee.... That's a real downer.

Only if you don't know the workaround. Making the most of what you have is far more rewarding than just trying to have every change you hear, or can think of. And the beauty of it is that you can play someone else's guitar and still sound good, rather than just shake your head and mumble because they don't have your "favorite" pedal.

[Howard Parker]

Exactly..As a rank beginner, using today's popular materials, you can't recognize the work arounds.

h

[Jack Hanson]

There's people who covet old Mavericks for stripping everything from the underside, ditching the pedalbar, and playing as a 10-string console.

Imagine what that thing might sound like, given a similar treatment. As Richard alluded to, one could recoup a considerable portion of the investment by parting it out. "Hey Mister -- that thing sounds just like an Emmons."

[Kevin Mincke]

There's people who covet old Mavericks for stripping everything from the underside, ditching the pedalbar, and playing as a 10-string console."[/i]

Herb Steiner has a Mav tuned up to C6th with no pedals & it sounds GREAT!

[James Lewis]

Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread and wrote in. I found a used GFI Expo X1 online and it should be here next week. The seller said it worked perfectly but I contacted a couple local pedal steel players locally and found someone who may be able to fix it if something goes wrong.

Now I might finally put these old loud Fender amps to use!

[Johnie King]

James congratulations good choice!

[Karl Paulsen]

Congrats on the new steel. Hope you love it!

You made a wise choice avoiding the first one you mentioned. Someone with more experience working on steels may find it to have fantastic potential but for a beginner on any instrument there's almost zero reasons to buy something that might require repair and doesn't have the standard basics.