My 4th string (E). I tune the F# (C Pedal) 1st at the tuning peg. I tune the E (open) 2nd at the lower rack. I tune the Eb (D lever) 3rd at the upper rack. Then I tune the F (F lever) 4th with the 1/2 tone tuner.
Here is the issue. I can't get the Eb (D lever) "unsharped". The finger does not make contact with the upper allen screw. Unless my tuning sequence is wrong, I am going to have to move a collar to get the finger to make contact with the allen screw. Am I correct? Thanks.
Tuning an Emmons Push-Pull
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
-
William Kendrick
- Posts: 112
- Joined: 26 May 2009 8:37 pm
- Location: Bedford Heights, Ohio, USA
Tuning an Emmons Push-Pull
1979 Emmons D-10 P/P 8X5, Lawrence L-710 Pickups, Li'l Izzy, Telonics Volume Pedal, Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Lexicon MX200 Dual Reverb Effects Processor, Peavey Vegas 400 Amplifier with BW Speaker.
-
Paul Sutherland
- Posts: 2732
- Joined: 8 Mar 2007 3:45 pm
- Location: Placerville, California
It sounds like you don't have enough slack on the raise pedals to allow the lower lever to reach pitch. So you would need to move the collar on the C floor pedal 4th string raise to create more slack.
First I would reach under the guitar with one hand and find the 4th string finger. With one hand lowering the string you must use your other hand to tune the changer. It's a bit of a challenge but you'll get the hang of it.
Once the changer is tuned for the lower, then try the lever and see if the string makes it down to pitch. I bet it does not given what you've described. That would confirm that you need more slack in the linkage, so go ahead and re-position the collar on the raise.
When you have confirmed that you have enough slack for the lower to work, then you can work on getting the raise to reach pitch by adding travel to the floor pedal using the adjustment screw on the junction of the foot pedal and the pedal board.
On a push-pull you must tune the lowers first when setting up the raises and lowers.
First I would reach under the guitar with one hand and find the 4th string finger. With one hand lowering the string you must use your other hand to tune the changer. It's a bit of a challenge but you'll get the hang of it.
Once the changer is tuned for the lower, then try the lever and see if the string makes it down to pitch. I bet it does not given what you've described. That would confirm that you need more slack in the linkage, so go ahead and re-position the collar on the raise.
When you have confirmed that you have enough slack for the lower to work, then you can work on getting the raise to reach pitch by adding travel to the floor pedal using the adjustment screw on the junction of the foot pedal and the pedal board.
On a push-pull you must tune the lowers first when setting up the raises and lowers.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.
-
William Kendrick
- Posts: 112
- Joined: 26 May 2009 8:37 pm
- Location: Bedford Heights, Ohio, USA
Thank you, Paul. I tried it and sure enough, I need to provide more slack. I'll keep you posted.
1979 Emmons D-10 P/P 8X5, Lawrence L-710 Pickups, Li'l Izzy, Telonics Volume Pedal, Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Lexicon MX200 Dual Reverb Effects Processor, Peavey Vegas 400 Amplifier with BW Speaker.
For Paul Sutherland:
"On a push-pull you must tune the lowers first when setting up the raises and lowers."
Paul - I agree with you 100%, but I've always been curious why all PP tuning instructions I've seen, even the 'Tuning a PP stickie' at the top of this "Pedal Steel" section of the Forum, states to tune the raises first.
Your comments really appreciated.
Ron
"On a push-pull you must tune the lowers first when setting up the raises and lowers."
Paul - I agree with you 100%, but I've always been curious why all PP tuning instructions I've seen, even the 'Tuning a PP stickie' at the top of this "Pedal Steel" section of the Forum, states to tune the raises first.
Your comments really appreciated.
Ron
-
Paul Sutherland
- Posts: 2732
- Joined: 8 Mar 2007 3:45 pm
- Location: Placerville, California
Ron: It's imperative to be clear at what stage of the tuning process one is at. My comments related to the initial point of setting up the raises and lowers.
You have to do the lowers first because if you do the raises first there is a very good chance you won't leave enough slack and the raise linkage will prevent the lowers from reaching the proper pitch (the finger won't make it to the cap screw).
Once the lowers have been set and properly tuned up, and the collars on the raise rods have been set so that the lowers are not impeded in their travel, then the raises can be tuned so the finger hits the cap screw when properly tuned. This process should include reaching under the guitar to push the finger against the cap screw and tuning as necessary. Then engage the pedal to make sure the finger hits the cap screw just as it also hits the pedal stop at the pedal bar.
When all that has been set, it's not likely that the collars will need to be adjusted again for a very long time. Then the tuning process is fairly straight forward and fine tuning of the raises can go first, if that's what you prefer to do.
You have to do the lowers first because if you do the raises first there is a very good chance you won't leave enough slack and the raise linkage will prevent the lowers from reaching the proper pitch (the finger won't make it to the cap screw).
Once the lowers have been set and properly tuned up, and the collars on the raise rods have been set so that the lowers are not impeded in their travel, then the raises can be tuned so the finger hits the cap screw when properly tuned. This process should include reaching under the guitar to push the finger against the cap screw and tuning as necessary. Then engage the pedal to make sure the finger hits the cap screw just as it also hits the pedal stop at the pedal bar.
When all that has been set, it's not likely that the collars will need to be adjusted again for a very long time. Then the tuning process is fairly straight forward and fine tuning of the raises can go first, if that's what you prefer to do.
Last edited by Paul Sutherland on 20 Feb 2019 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.
-
William Kendrick
- Posts: 112
- Joined: 26 May 2009 8:37 pm
- Location: Bedford Heights, Ohio, USA
How do I love thee....let me count the ways. Collars, springs, spacers, rods, fingers, flanges, bell cranks. I am in love with my Emmons Push-Pull again with a big thanks to Clem Schmitz who walked me through a place where I have never been...the underneath of my guitar. As he (over the phone) drew a mental picture of my guitar and then had me check each part, we found the problem. The 8th string rod had tension on the spring when there was no tension called for (the changer was at rest). As soon as I loosened the collar, the spring relaxed and the 4th string changer now makes contact with the stop...thus I got my tempered Eb back on the 4th string. A big thanks to Paul and Lynn (who I talked to over the phone) for your help and a really big thanks to Clem. Now I have a greater appreciation for the workings of a pedal steel guitar and a really big appreciation for those who know how to fix them!
1979 Emmons D-10 P/P 8X5, Lawrence L-710 Pickups, Li'l Izzy, Telonics Volume Pedal, Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Lexicon MX200 Dual Reverb Effects Processor, Peavey Vegas 400 Amplifier with BW Speaker.
-
Eric Philippsen
- Posts: 1966
- Joined: 14 Jan 2008 5:38 pm
- Location: Central Indiana, USA
Clem Schmitz has got me out of trouble once or twice with my push pull. He has developed a number of innovative parts and ideas for the push pull guitar, and his knowledge of the instrument is second to none. His clip-on bell crank is a stroke of genius.William Kendrick wrote:........ I am in love with my Emmons Push-Pull again with a big thanks to Clem Schmitz who walked me through a place where I have never been...the underneath of my guitar.........
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Infinity SD10 (4+5) Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E,
-
William Kendrick
- Posts: 112
- Joined: 26 May 2009 8:37 pm
- Location: Bedford Heights, Ohio, USA
This is an update. I sent my Emmons P/P to Clem Schmitz and when I got it back it tunes like a dream. All of the tuning parameters are there - whether I use the Buddy Emmons or the Jeff Newman temperment. All the fingers hit their stops. Thank you, Clem. I am in love with my P/P again!
1979 Emmons D-10 P/P 8X5, Lawrence L-710 Pickups, Li'l Izzy, Telonics Volume Pedal, Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Lexicon MX200 Dual Reverb Effects Processor, Peavey Vegas 400 Amplifier with BW Speaker.