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Topic: Odd major chord on bottom 3 strings on E9 with flat 5 lever |
Jay Coover
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2018 10:09 pm |
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It dawned on me tonight that I can get a straight up Bb major chord at fret 0 on the bottom 3 strings of my E9 using both the flat 5 (vertical on mine) and F lever. There you have it, Bb, D, and F.
I'd be shocked if this were both in tune and sounded good on everyone's guitars. Even if it's in tune, that's a low register for that tight of a voicing. Perhaps not terribly useful, but...
You could...if you were inclined to want to do such a thing, get a root and 5 chug with a palm mute much like a boring guitar player. Throw in a dash of overdrive and turn on your 38 special.
The trick is to then completely mute the third of the chord (9th string) with your bar hand thumb or index finger. Anchor your favorite picking finger on string 7 to mute it. Apply a light palm mute near the bridge. Strum with your thumb across the bottom 3 strings like a blues guy and slide away.
If it's all in tune it might start to sound better as a full chord up higher, tough one.
Well, I tried. Merry Christmas!
EDIT: This is how to tune this -
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2795907#2795907
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GFI Expo S-10 3x5
Goodrich 120
Last edited by Jay Coover on 24 Dec 2018 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Al Evans
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2018 6:41 am
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| Jay Coover wrote: |
| It dawned on me tonight that I can get a straight up Bb major chord at fret 0 on the bottom 3 strings of my E9 using both the flat 5 (vertical on mine) and F lever. There you have it, Bb, D, and F. |
This works pretty well on my Zumsteel Encore. And if you lower string 2 to D, you have a Bb7 that covers everything except strings 1 and 7.
--Al Evans
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2018 MSA Legend, 2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon |
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Jay Coover
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2018 8:43 am
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Right! It looks a lot like the B7 chord you get with B pedal and E lever, except shifted down a half step then.
_________________
GFI Expo S-10 3x5
Goodrich 120
Last edited by Jay Coover on 23 Dec 2018 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jay Coover
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2018 3:38 pm
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Further thinking on this. If your root and 5 are not in tune in this position it's probably because the terminal lower on the flat 5 lever (which is confusingly controlling the root note here) isn't fully sweetened. The sweetened JI tritone is actually quite flat by about 17 cents from the tonic (E in this case). You might not have noticed because the usual use for this lever is with a split with the A pedal and that terminal lower wouldn't have much bearing on whether the split itself was in tune. As for the major third, it will never be a sweet major third in this case from what I can tell, with regards to keeping the 9th string's more formal usage intact.
You could, just for that one song where you need to strum the bottom three strings, tune your 9th string down at the headstock until it's in tune. Try it. It is crazy flat on my guitar. I won't even tell you.
In other words, I can get the 1 and 5 in tune without compromising any other tuning, and get the very bottom major chord in tune with just a quick one string tweak. I think you could too.
_________________
GFI Expo S-10 3x5
Goodrich 120 |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2018 8:42 pm
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I doubt that the minor 3rd (D to F) will be in tune on most guitars. It might be "acceptable" if you tune to equal temperament, but most players tune their F lever quite a bit flat of that.
I always wonder why people lower their 10th string to Bb anyway. It messes up the BMaj7 position with E's lowered - a very important C6th-like change. I guess there are other uses that don't occur to me.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jay Coover
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2018 5:29 am
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Yup, that really flat F lever is going to be the trick to deal with if you want to get this in tune. It's possible with only two tweaks that are easily reversible.
You don't want to touch your F lever for obvious reasons. Do not adjust its tuning.
1. Engage both the F lever and the flat 5 lever and tune the flat 5 lever lower nut (10th string) until you get the fifth interval you want from the 10th and 8th strings. This may be a change you can live with permanently if you like this idea. Either way it should not affect the split with the A pedal tuning that this lever is so often used for (the C note on the B strings).
2. When the time comes, the song where you want to use this technique, lower your 9th string D at the headstock about 25 cents or so until this major third is in tune. You would then probably avoid using the 9th string as a "normal" 9th string until you tune it back.
Now, if you thought your A & F chords required you to play the bar sharp, this one will be yet another degree of weirdness.
_________________
GFI Expo S-10 3x5
Goodrich 120
Last edited by Jay Coover on 24 Dec 2018 10:08 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2018 10:00 am
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Many people now have a 4th pedal that lowers their 10th string to A. Combined with the lever that lowers D to C#, it gives you the same 1 3 5 intervals on the bottom 3 strings without having to retune anything. The chord is A major (A C# E).
This is not a new idea. It may have evolved from Don Helms' E13th in the non-pedal era, used on Hank Williams' records, among many others:
A C# E G# B C# E G#
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jay Coover
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2018 10:13 am
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I've seen youtube videos of steel players playing delta blues type stuff on the bottom strings...where clearly they had a different tuning than standard E9. This might be a way to get a little bit of that without changing much, though your fret 0 position Bb chord isn't going to be anywhere near in tune with anything except itself.
Anyway, this is way too much of a distraction for me where I'm at. Back to the Right Hand Alpha. First things first.
_________________
GFI Expo S-10 3x5
Goodrich 120
Last edited by Jay Coover on 24 Dec 2018 8:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Jay Coover
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2018 12:42 pm
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Yup, I'll bet it was that or one a lot like it.
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GFI Expo S-10 3x5
Goodrich 120 |
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