CBA pedal alignment , etc.

Gary Hoetker · From: California, USA

Not sure how to frame this question.

1. I assume most of the posts on You Tube showing E-9 pedal steel instruction use the Emmons ABC pedal alignment. They don't tell us that. Does the Day CBA pedal alignment (set up for my starter Marlen when it was delivered) accomplish the same thing as the ABC pedal alignment. ie. lower and raising of same strings...? Are the knee levers set up that way too?

2.Does it make sense changing to ABC alignment for learning purposes?

3.What is a fair price to have a S10, with 3P and 2KL as presently set up re-tuned to the Emmons set up??

Thanks for any help.

Jeff Mead · From: London, England

Yes, the pedals do exactly the same things (the A pedal raises the b's a whole tone, the B raises the G#s to A etc). The knee levers are less standard but instructional material will tell you what the levers do and what the instructor calls them. With only 2 pedals you will come accross instructors who have changes you don't, of course

So yes, when the instructor tells you to engage the B pedal and squeeze in the A, it is exactly the same on Day and Emmons - you will just be doing a different physical move. As long as you know where the AB&C pedal are on YOUR guitar, you're fine.

There is a lot of discussion about Day vs Emmons and there are advantages and disadvantages to both but it really comes down to personal choice - for example is it more comfortable to rock your ankle from left to right or the other way?

You may decide you want to change from Day to Emmons but compatibility with instructional material is definitely NOT a reason to do that.

By the way, Jeff Newman, one of the most popular video instructors, uses Day setup on all his instructional videos and the Emmons players have no trouble with that at all and the reverse also applies to Emmons instructors.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Jeff Newman didn't play Day exclusively, but it does have an advantage on a universal setup, which he did much to promote.

If you want to compare the two, fool around on just strings 8-7-6-5 where A and C act the same.
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Gary Hoetker · From: California, USA

You guys and all the other Forumites are the best. Thank you so much for taking interest and time in answering my questions.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

There was just big discussion on the EMMONS (Nashville) setup, DAY setup, here on the forum and their arrangement.
The EMMONS setup pedals ABC, DAY setup CBA. The only thing set in stone is 3 pedals, In the Emmons setup left to right Pedal A strings 5 & 10 to C# , Pedal B Strings 3 & 6 to A, Pedal C raise string 4 to F# and string 5 to C#. The Days set up just reverses the A & C pedals in position, but are tuned the same.
The arrangement of these 3 pedals is what makes it Emmons or Day setup. There is no set standard for the Knee levers and some players add what is called an O pedal and a 4th pedal to E9th tuning to get the changes they want.
There is good and bad in both setups. The first steel I had, I set it up DAY and I like it.
Welcome to an instrument that there is not much standards to, Except the Emmons VS Day system.
Good Luck and Happy steelin

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

In a forum poll 4 years ago, 84% of E9th players use Emmons (ABC) pedals. Because of its popularity, Emmons is your best bet starting out. Some people find that their foot works better with the Day (CBA) arrangement. If you're one of them, that's a good reason to switch.

There's no musical advantage of one over the other. It's just ergonomics.
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Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Why do people keep saying Emmons is the setup a new player should play. I played Emmons for maybe 6 or 7 months, then switched to Day on the recommendation of a friend who added more knee levers to my guitar.

Some of the ridiculous reasons that always come up are (these assume the guitar is set up Day style):

1. All the instructional material is written for Emmons setup. the placement of the 3 pedals is pretty much irrelevant. There are A,B, and C pedals in both setups. The A might be on pedal 1 on one set up, and pedal 3 on the other. It's hard to imagine anyone incapable of making that transposition in their mind instantly. I have not seen any tab that uses numbers instead of letter since the 70's.

2. You'll be able to play more of other's guitars. True, but if your sole reasoning is to play other's guitars, then by all means switch over to Emmons. If you want practice using Emmons pedals, just turn the tuning nut on the C pedal so the E to F# change doesn't do anything. With only the B to C# change on the 5th string, that gives an A pedal on string 5, but not string 10. The knee levers might not be where you like them, but that may also be case in someone elses guitar. At least you can get the ankle movements down. I sometimes do that for the heck of it. I sometimes sit in on an Emmons setup, and can hold my own, although not as good as my setup.

#2 is also good to test if you are more comfortable playing one setup or the other.

3. More people play Emmons setup. WHO CARES.

I say, if you buy a guitar that is Day, and you've never been behind a steel, learn to play it. If you are good enough mechanically, go ahead and set it up however you want.

As far as ergonomics go, to some, one setup is more comfortable to them, so they play the setup that works best for them.

Just remember, no matter which setup you use, they both play the same music.
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Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

What is interesting to me is how players who both raise and lower their 4 & 8 with their left knee levers set up their instruments. Most folks with Emmons pedals raise the Es with the LKL, and lower 'em with the LKR. Most folks with Day pedals do the opposite.

There is one very well-known virtuoso player in the San Fernando Valley who uses a combination of Emmons floor pedals and Day left knee levers. So, nothing seems to be set in stone.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

It's more than just the pedals, Richard. Many Day guitars have the F lever on LKR instead of the very standard LKL. (Jimmy Day himself didn't, but he was exceptional.) Muscle memory lasts a long time, which is why most people stick with whatever they started with.

If you decide that you're a Day player, be prepared to do a bit mechanical work whenever you buy a used pedal steel. 4 out of 5 of them are configured with Emmons pedals. All new guitars are configured Emmons unless the buyer specifies Day.

Unless you're a 12-string E9/B6 universal kind of guy (like Ian), there's no musical advantage to one over the other. It's just what feels best to your foot.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Yes Bob, the knee levers could need moving along with pedals. If the E changes are on the right knee, no problem. I would imagine since the OP said his guitar was set up Day style, that the knee levers are set up to work with Day pedals. If he was convert the guitar to Emmons, yes he would (maybe) have to also move levers if the E levers are on the left knee. If they are on the right knee, no worry. If one is on the left knee, it would need to be moved to the other side of the knee.

RKR is standard for the F lever on a Day guitar? I didn't get the memo that standards for where which lever goes where on the guitar were finalized.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting.

Paul Pearson · From: Alabama, USA

I play day set up I have had my e and f leavers on both knees and kava always come back to them on the left knee that's where I'm more comfortably at I tried Emmons set up for about 2 weeks could not get the hang of it my teacher set me up on day set up never looked back once you learn what strings the ABC ppeadels activate and def knee leavers do you want have no trouble reading tab

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Be sure you give a good consideration to which way your ankle likes to move before you change. I tend to walk a little bit on the outside of my foot, and combined with the fact that I'm a little older, and a little stiffer than I used to be, the Emmons set up would kill my ankle all day.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

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