string 1 & 2 raise on knee - seeking suggestions

[David Sheads]

I’d love to set up an existing knee lever for a whole step raise on string 1 and a half step raise on string 2. Anyone have any suggestions on how I might modify my current copedent, to lose the least amount of versatility while gaining that change? It’s a U12 GFI Ultra 7x5. Thanks!

[David Sheads]

For instance, is there anyway I could make my current LKR 1&7 raise into a 1,2&7 raise, but where the 1&7 would stop at a G as a half-stop, while the 7 would remain at G while the 1&2 continued to E and G# at the full stop position?

(With the understanding that the 2 would be at a 1/4 tone while the 1 and 7 are at G, if such a thing is possible)

I’d be open to installing something like a WBS half-stop to make this happen.

[George Duncan Sypert]

David I have a thought about this. If you setup the first string to a whole step raise and the second string a half raise with the 7th string at a half raise when adjusted properly you would have a half raise on the 1st string by using the other two pulls as a half stop. If possible on your guitar, the other two strings won't engage until the full raise on the 1st string.

In the last two weeks I have set up my PP guitar to do exactly that except I don't raise the 7th a half but lower 6 a whole on the same lever. Works really good so far.

Just a thought you might try that and if it works you have the best of both worlds.

George

[Lane Gray]

I'd add it to P4 or perhaps a right-footed P7. I don't like having to hit a half-stop for the G note.

[Jack Stoner]

The current factory "standard" tuning for a GFI is to have the 1st string F# to G#, 2nd string D# to E and 6th string G# to F# lower on the RKL. That is also how I have it set on my Franklin. This was also the "standard" Knee lever set up on a Carter.

[David Sheads]

Thanks for your input, everyone!

I’m leaning towards changing my LKV to get the string 1&2 change, at least temporarily to see how I like it.

In the future, I’m thinking of moving the Franklin pedal (7 now) to a “0” position, and then maybe moving a less-used change to be a right-footed 7 pedal.

Can anyone give an example of why the 6 string lower works well with the 1&2 raise?

[David Sheads]

I feel like the 1/2 raise/6 lower is something that is found on E9 10 strings more often than a U12, and that the D string has something to do with it? I’ve never had anything but a U12, so my brain doesn’t think in terms of having easy access to a D string...

[Charlie McDonald]

For instance, is there anyway I could make my current LKR 1&7 raise into a 1,2&7 raise, but where the 1&7 would stop at a G as a half-stop, while the 7 would remain at G while the 1&2 continued to E and G# at the full stop position?

(With the understanding that the 2 would be at a 1/4 tone while the 1 and 7 are at G, if such a thing is possible)

I've thought about this too; it's a real puzzler, so correct me if my reasoning is faulty.

Surely you wouldn't want the 1/4 tone raise on 2; normally 1 & 2 are timed to complete their raises together.
The lowest note (7) would usually be used to govern the half-stop due its string gauge (Lane's objection withstanding, possibly due to a soft feel stop at G.
At best it would leave you with a I minor, augmented 7th, resolving into IM.). That would leave str. 2 as the governor for half-pulls on 1 & 7 and I don't know if that would work.

I see that you have a lot of musical knowledge. There would have to be a strong musical reason for the change, and you'd have to set it up to see if it's possible.
Otherwise, George's suggestion might be better, and I'd defer to the experience of the three other posters.

[David Sheads]

Maybe I’m taking the wrong approach by trying to make the 7 stop at a G - I’m thinking it might be possible to do a 1/2/7 string raise with a Wolf’s half-stop to retain a F# to G raise on 1 and 7 (with a firm half-stop provided by the wolf half-stop, and the 2 string being at a 1/4 tone at this point) and then the 2 string finishing its half-step journey during the transition to full-stop.

link to a thread about the wolf’s half-stop here: https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=330752

The question remains: since the 2 string will be unpleasant to hear while the 1 and 7 are raised to G - is there much lost by not having the 2 string play a D# while the 1 and 7 play a G?

[Pat Chong]

Hi Dave,
There may be a way to use the changes together, but (at this point) I am not aware of it. It just seems an efficient way of using a pedal or lever, just using the changes separatly. I think that is why Lane suggested adding it to pedal 4, the licks involved were in different places.
.......Pat

[Ian Worley]

David, it's definitely possible to get the pulls timed between strings 1 and 2 so that the string 2 raise doesn't engage until after the half stop. You just need to experiment with different combinations of bellcrank/changer leverage between the two strings.

For string 7, on an all-pull changer the only straightforward way that I know of to get one raise to remain unchanged after a half-stop while another string continues to the full raise (string 1 in your example) is to add a lowering rod to that string pull (7) that will engage after the half-stop to compensate for the continued raise movement on that string. Basically the inverse concept of a split tuning rod. It will work, but the compensated note will likely have a little # hiccup during the second half of the pull. It will also likely be a fairly stiff pull overall.

The mechanical half stop will make finding the Gs more precise but you will sacrifice a some of the smoothness of the full raise with that half stop bump in middle.