Sho-Bud tone

Bobby Nelson · Post by **Bobby Nelson** » 22 Sep 2018 5:21 am

I've noticed this tone in old Sho-buds (specifically Jimmy Day's and, especially Buddy Charleton's) that seems to have this out of phase sound to it, kinda like the middle switch position on a 335. This is probably a stupid question but, Does anyone know if this tone is something specific to Sho-bud, or does it have something to do with the pickup? Maybe it's wired out of phase? I have Stratocaster I had built that has a blender pot and gets a wide array of tones (especially in the 2 & 4 positions). I was thinking I might be able to get a little of this with my Truetone pup, and I'm not sure, but didn't hear it right off. I love the sweet
bright screeching tone I get (especially from the Alumitone and the Telonics) but would like to get a little of that tone also.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 22 Sep 2018 7:16 am

I tried a bunch of pickups on my last Sho-Bud trying to get a vintage tone. I finally achieved it by purchasing a used vintage Sho-Bud pickup! It had quite a bit less resistance than a standard pickup so maybe it had larger wire or less windings. Likely the magnetics were different as well. The tonal change with the vintage pickup was dramatic and I stuck with it!

Bobby Nelson · Post by **Bobby Nelson** » 22 Sep 2018 7:38 am

I wondered if maybe it was something like that. They make big hay about old guitar pups too. But, with guys like Lindy Fralin and the like out there these days, they can pretty much tailor your tone.

Steve Spitz · Post by **Steve Spitz** » 22 Sep 2018 1:46 pm

I had a Sho-Bud, single coil pick up, into a Fender Twin. Was looking for that cool sho-bud tone. Wasnâ€™t working for me, Until....

I ditched my active Pedal for an old Pot pedal.

That made a big difference. Sweet Sho-Bud sound.

Just my experience, hope that helps someone.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 22 Sep 2018 2:30 pm

I had a pot pedal back then and am back to using one again. It's the pedal that made most of the hits sounds on record. Also the pedal that was designed to work with passive pickups!

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 22 Sep 2018 3:46 pm

Does this mean that the use of a Matchbox 7A, for example, is detrimental to "the sound?"

Kevin Fix · Post by **Kevin Fix** » 22 Sep 2018 6:44 pm

35 years with Sho Buds. I will never change. Tone to the Bone!!!! I run from my guitar to a Hilton volume pedal. I also have Goodrich H10K volume pedal. I like both pedals. My only effects is a Hilton Delay and DoBro simulator. Amp is a NV112. I have a Hot Roded NV112 and one that is stock. I use George L 1.55 cables.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 22 Sep 2018 6:50 pm

If you like the sound with the matchbox or other buffer use it! It certainly alters the volume pedal pot's load on the passive pickup that results in the classic tone of the 50's 60's and 70's. That classic tone is not for everybody! Find a setup that works for you.

Bobby Nelson · Post by **Bobby Nelson** » 23 Sep 2018 12:56 am

Ahh - I had never thought about the volume pedal. I use a Hilton (I do like the low profile of the Hilton - it's easier on my old joints and tendons). Maybe I'll try a Goodrich (looks to be what Charleton used) and see. Thanks.

Dan Kelly · Post by **Dan Kelly** » 23 Sep 2018 4:06 am

I agree with Steve and Greg... For me, it was the addition of an old Sho-Bud passive pedal to the signal chain that made the biggest difference. Somehow, the old Sho-Bud tone came alive when I ditched the Telonics pedal and the George L cables.

Please don't misunderstand; I am a big Telonics and George L cables fan as they make a big difference in the tone of my Mullen RP D-10. It just seems that vintage Sho-Bud tone comes from vintage Sho-Bud equipment.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 23 Sep 2018 8:26 am

This is me; with a Sho~bud Pro II; Sho~bud pickup, with a Sho~bud volume POT Pedal and straight into a Fender twin and to me THAT is the shobud sound; and if you start adding anything; then you are adding to the NON-shobud sound..ha.
E9 solo in this song starts 0:58>
https://youtu.be/qgkjdrkelZk
C6 on this song>
https://youtu.be/tcVeooHXId8

Ricky

Bobby Nelson · Post by **Bobby Nelson** » 23 Sep 2018 9:10 am

Please don't misunderstand; I am a big Telonics and George L cables fan as they make a big difference in the tone of my Mullen RP D-10. It just seems that vintage Sho-Bud tone comes from vintage Sho-Bud equipment.

That's kind of what I figured.

Great stuff Ricky, and that is the tone I'm talking about something vaguely out of phase about it).

To me, there is a couple defining classic PSG tones: Sho-Bud, and Emmons. My MSA (which I love and sounds fantastic) sounds more like an Emmons. I only thought with the great option of quick-change pups, I could tinker with the tone for a little more of the "Bud" twang. I'll try the old "pot" pedal. It's not really a big deal - this thing has great tone all it's own.

This probably falls into the category of advice I used to give to people trying to get Stratocaster tone out of a non-strat: Get a Straocaster haha!

Bobby Nelson · Post by **Bobby Nelson** » 23 Sep 2018 9:23 am

I was thinking that Buddy Charleton being my current biggest influence, that a big part of it was his tone. Then it occured to me that, the tone I'm hunting is very close ot my six string tone (w/out the gobs of reverb) as on this one from 2003.

https://youtu.be/3MQjjAtUlEI?list=PLHlP ... keJk4TPLZe

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 23 Sep 2018 9:59 am

Thanks Bobby; and I wanted to share some more info/opinion to further that SHO~BUD tone and to me is the difference between Classic Tone and Modern Tone:

(this below is me answering a question if a Jackson can come close to the Classic Sho~bud Tone)

"Well the Jackson is a fine sounding pedal steel; pretty much just like ANY modern pedal steel. But to me the one HUGE difference between modern sound and that classic sound is the making of all the metal parts that hold the wood body together and hold the changer fingers/axle....and that classic sound is "Die Casted" endplates and keyheads and tailpiece(that holds the axle/changer.......and ALLLLL the modern pedal steels are "Machined Metal".....is their making....and so NO modern pedal steel can sound like what we hear.(unless they go back to "die cast"...and I would say the only person that would do that would actually be Harry Jackson.....but Iâ€™m sure his brother...David Jackson talks him out of it every time Harry might bring it up.....ha....
Ricky"

Bobby Nelson · Post by **Bobby Nelson** » 23 Sep 2018 12:45 pm

Hmmm - very interesting. Chasing tone can be a long expensive process. It's one of the things that keeps it interesting to me - not that I need anything to keep pedal steel interesting to me as of yet.

Kevin Fix · Post by **Kevin Fix** » 23 Sep 2018 4:16 pm

Hey Ricky!! No doubt about it!!! Great playing and you can't beat a Bud!!!! I play in a classic country band and I do know some songs I pick close to the PUP and some songs I will pick away from PUP. I don't use any more equipment than I need. Seems to rob the tone that you should have.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Sep 2018 4:30 pm

Rick Abbott wrote:Does this mean that the use of a Matchbox 7A, for example, is detrimental to "the sound?"

I wouldn't call it detrimental. But then again, I wouldn't call it necessary, either.

Whatever you think you need is what you'll probably wind up using. I don't think I need that sort of stuff, and that's why I don't use it.

I'm a simple-minded guy, so I like simple things done in simple ways. IMHO, if you want an old Sho~Bud sound, buy an old Sho~Bud guitar.

Done deal.

Steve Sycamore · Post by **Steve Sycamore** » 24 Sep 2018 12:01 am

By the way, the pickups on my Dec. '74 Custom Pro III measure just over 11K ohms if I remember correctly. They put out quite a bit more signal than the pickups on my ZB's.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 24 Sep 2018 2:12 am

The only thing I can add is that of the multiple Sho Buds I have owned, the ones that I consider to have had the so called classic tones were the early 70's guitars with the stock pups. Professionals, Pro II's and Pro III's. The later models with the newer changers and materials, Pro I and Super Pro's, they were nice playing and sounding guitars but were nothing like the earlier guitars.

Ronnie Boettcher · Post by **Ronnie Boettcher** » 24 Sep 2018 5:10 am

Great sound Ricky! That is exactly how I feel about my LDG. I do not need a modern steel guitar. Lloyd gave me that advice way back when, and I took it, and bought my LDG. Only difference is I do not have a Fender Twin. But the sound is still there, and that's all I play, is classic country.

Mike Beley · Post by **Mike Beley** » 24 Sep 2018 8:39 am

9000 hours more of practice, then I'm gonna sound just like Ricky Davis!

I already have the Fender twin!

Wow, awesome stuff!

W. C. Edgar · Post by **W. C. Edgar** » 25 Sep 2018 5:52 pm

Content deleted by WC

admin · Post by **b0b** » 25 Sep 2018 6:33 pm

My first real pedal steel was a Sho~Bud 6139 that I bought new in early 1974. As I recall, the pickup had 3 wires: ground, hot, and an off-center tap. I determined this with an ohmmeter. I think there was a switch to use the full pickup or just the tap. I added a blend pot to get more tonal variety. In one of my goofy wiring experiments the tone was similar to the "out of phase" sound you describe.

Steve Sycamore · Post by **Steve Sycamore** » 26 Sep 2018 12:28 am

Yes, the off center tap could tend to sound a bit thin, but with an amp that puts out plenty of bass and lower mids it sounds quite nice as an option.

Bobby Nelson · Post by **Bobby Nelson** » 26 Sep 2018 12:46 pm

That may well be what I think I'm hearing Bob. I hear it, especially in Day and Charleton's tones.