| Author |
Topic: noisy linkage on Emmons |
Kirk Hamre
From:
Huntington Beach, California
|
Posted 30 Oct 2005 5:33 pm |
|
I notice that when I release my A pedal on my Emmons, the rod that runs horizontal to the cabinet that pulls the fingers rattles against the other linkage...any proven remedies for this noise? I thought I might install a small rubber house around the rod where it comes in contact with other parts.
------------------
2001 Emmons Lashley LeGrande II, Model LST10L, E9th Single 10 String on a Double Frame with pad, 3 Pedals, 5 Knees, RKR is a double stop. 2005 Peavey Nashville 1000 Amp. Boss GE-7 Equalizer. Sho Bud Volume Pedal. BJS Bar.
|
|
|
|
Larry Strawn
From:
Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.
|
Posted 30 Oct 2005 5:37 pm
|
|
Maybe it just needs a little "tweeking" so it doesn't rub...
Larry
------------------
Emmons S/D-10, 3/5, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"
|
|
|
|
Kirk Hamre
From:
Huntington Beach, California
|
Posted 30 Oct 2005 5:39 pm
|
|
| The pull rod does not rub, it bounces around when I release the A pedal due to spring tension at finger end of rod. |
|
|
|
Kirk Hamre
From:
Huntington Beach, California
|
Posted 30 Oct 2005 5:42 pm
|
|
| I've noticed on some guitars a foam rubber block around all the pull rods...is this to reduce linkage noise? Can I buy one pre cut to fit my Emmons? |
|
|
|
Sonny Miller
From:
Lino Lakes, Minnesota, USA
|
Posted 30 Oct 2005 5:52 pm
|
|
| Buy some rubber foam and slide it under the rods, in maybe 2-3 spots. And you might need to cut the foam , under the rods so there is a good fit. That how i have done it off an on for years. [This message was edited by Sonny Miller on 31 October 2005 at 02:32 PM.] |
|
|
|
jim milewski
From:
stowe, vermont
|
Posted 30 Oct 2005 6:59 pm
|
|
| the foam |
|
|
|
richard burton
From:
Britain
|
|
|
|
Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
|
Posted 30 Oct 2005 10:39 pm
|
|
Richard,
What the Heck do you have going on underneath your Emmons? There are some creative parts there. Do I see one rod that is bent to meet the backside of a bellcrank?
What are those long linked springs returning or balancing?
I see you are from Britain, so I guess I can't call it Yankee Ingenuity.
Chris
[This message was edited by Chris Lucker on 30 October 2005 at 10:48 PM.] |
|
|
|
Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
|
Posted 31 Oct 2005 4:26 am
|
|
Chris: don't ask.  |
|
|
|
richard burton
From:
Britain
|
|
|
|
john widgren
From:
Wilton CT
|
Posted 31 Oct 2005 7:23 am
|
|
This applies to both push-pull and all pull guitars, although the all pulls seem to require more often, and a correctly set up PP should not need at all.
First: Really take a good look at the "pull train", and see if you have your raises and lowers in as straight a configuration as is possible (90 degrees from the changer and crossshafts), without crossovers and rub points. You may be able to make small adjustments by changing the side from which the rod goes through the bellcrank, or you may need to go somewhat less than straight to avoid rubs, but generally straighter is better. Go through the guitar slowly, and methodically, and you may be able to eliminate a lot of slop and slap in the rods.
Second: get some good stiff foam, (I like the gray stuff) and make a damper block. It does not need to be wider than two inches, (measuring at the changer to headstock dimension) and perhaps could be less. It should be approximately the depth of the guitar cabinet (slightly less), or the distance from the underside of the cabinet to just beyond the longest throw hole on your bellcranks. The foam should be deep enough to span all 10 or 12 string-pulls with around a half inch more past on both (Bass and treble) ends. Measure the distance between the pull holes on the changer from string to string, and make slits in the foam to that dimension for the number of strings on your guitar. Don't slice the slits all the way through the foam, leave about a half inch unslit, which will go against the cabinet. You are making little "fingers".
Third: Slide the damper-block under the rods,wherever you can without interfearing with bellcrank or changer movements (generally somewhere between your last pedal, and the changer), with the unslit end against the cabinet. Slide the "fingers" of the block between the pull rods. The foam will help prevent the rods from slapping around, and should quiet the mechanism somewhat, without affecting pedal throw and feel.
Best wishes...John |
|
|
|
Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
|
Posted 31 Oct 2005 7:39 am
|
|
GOOD GOD MAN!! what have you done to that guitar...
 |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 31 Oct 2005 7:59 am
|
|
When you are running a long rod on a p/p, you need to provide some support for it along the way to the changer. This is done by running it through the top hole on a bellcrank. You don't need a set screw collar, just run it through a swivel on a bellcrank. This will help eliminate the "slap" when you mash a pedal.
Erv |
|
|
|
jim milewski
From:
stowe, vermont
|
Posted 31 Oct 2005 8:02 am
|
|
I have several old British motorcycles, Richards linkage make perfect sense to me  |
|
|
|
Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
|
Posted 31 Oct 2005 9:46 am
|
|
Richard,
Now I understand. After looking at the other Emmons pictures on your great site, I can see the Emmons is not completely original. You replaced the aluminum trim strips on the front apron.
It looks like you had a lot of fun working on that guitar and I am sure the results are very satisfying.
Chris |
|
|
|
Mike Cass
|
Posted 31 Oct 2005 9:48 am
|
|
I guess I can skip my morning coffee today, that got my attention ..whew!
Erv's point on guides is the deal imho; same goes for the lower rods too,as guides also reduce torque on the drop rods thru the movement of lowering,thus making the drops shorter and more solid feeling.
Most Emmons p/p's came with an abundance of bellcranks under them partially for those reasons,but many I now see have had the extras pilfered and they are usually the noisy,sloppy-feeling horns. If anyone needs such parts but dont want to pull your x-shafts out to add them, Bobbe's p/p bellcranks make excellent "slipover" type
cranks when cut in 1/2 accordingly. I think he still sells them,anyway. |
|
|
|
Duane Reese
|
Posted 31 Oct 2005 10:42 am
|
|
Well Richard... I'm speechless. I mean I'll bet it probably plays really nice. Wow.
|
|
|
|
richard burton
From:
Britain
|
Posted 31 Oct 2005 11:48 am
|
|
It's effortless to play, as everything I've put on it is designed to minimise physical effort, time the pulls, and have positive stops etc.
My ZB took a bit longer than the Emmons to tame, but I got there eventually |
|
|
|
Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 31 Oct 2005 7:22 pm
|
|
| Boy do I remember those days of trying to quiet a noise guitar and the sponges. Real learning experiences. Makes me appreciate a CARTER! |
|
|
|
Kirk Hamre
From:
Huntington Beach, California
|
Posted 1 Nov 2005 5:47 pm
|
|
Well, under close examination, I found the A pedal horizontal pull rod that pulls string 5 to be the noisy rod. This rod and rod number 10 are the longest on the guitar, therefore, they have the most up/down & side to side slap when I release pedal A, causing the rods to slap against other rods and slap against other bell cranks. The noise is not extreme, but I would like to reduce any unnecessary noise. It looks to me that I could adjust the bell cranks laterally on the cross rods and gain just a small amount of rod clearance. For now, I've installed some very small rubber hose around the noisy rods and this has eliminated the noise I was hearing. Don't know yet if the rubber hose is going to create some other problem for me?
------------------
2001 Emmons Lashley LeGrande II, Model LST10L, E9th Single 10 String on a Double Frame with pad, 3 Pedals, 5 Knees, RKR is a double stop. 2005 Peavey Nashville 1000 Amp. Boss GE-7 Equalizer. Sho Bud Volume Pedal. BJS Bar.
|
|
|
|
Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
|
Posted 1 Nov 2005 5:55 pm
|
|
Man, I can't believe this! I don't even have enough breath to comment, Richard Burton, no, never mind.
Kirk, a rubber house? How would that help? How about a rubber room, for Richard?[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 01 November 2005 at 05:56 PM.] |
|
|
|
Kirk Hamre
From:
Huntington Beach, California
|
Posted 1 Nov 2005 6:06 pm
|
|
Bobbe,
The rubber hose inside diameter is just a little smaller than the rod. I cut about a 2" length of hose and cut it open on one side. I then snapped the hose over the rod for a perfect fit. The hose has created a cushion around the rod so it does not slap into other rods and bell cranks when I release pedal. Got a better idea? |
|
|
|
Duane Reese
|
Posted 1 Nov 2005 9:16 pm
|
|
Bobbe I take it by your enthusiasm that you're planning on sending one of your p/p's across the pond to have Richard add a little magic? (kidding)
Seriously though, I think it's kind of cool what Richard has done, taking the bull by the horns like that. Richard, my hat's off to you! |
|
|
|
Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
|
Posted 1 Nov 2005 9:49 pm
|
|
Kirk, I see, you mean rubber hose, I thought you said rubber house.
Do I have a better idea? Yes, and it covers Richard too. It's called don't reinvent the wheel, set these guitars up exactly the way they were designed to be setup and they will be perfect.
Weldon M, Hal R, Stu B, Cal S, Steve H, Buddy E, Larry S., Dave R. Mike C. Sonny G. myself and many others built a career recording under high pressure conditions with these P-P guitars set up to perfect factory spects. If the linkage is noisy, it isn't adjusted correctly. When these guitars are set up perfectly, they will stay that way until they are changed.
I see many P-P Emmons guitars a year, and all the bad ones were abused by their owners, I have never seen one "Worn out", but damaged by the owners that think they can improve on the original design. I've never seen an improvement, but I've seen a lot of damage.
Remember this, Jimmy Crawford, Ron Lashley and myself have built many ten pedal, ten knee lever P-P Emmons guitars, most went to pro players, all worked greatly, no noise, no tuning problems and all were built the way they were designed to be built.
A butcherd/non-original P-P guitar has very little value,However, a factory P-P guitar set up correctly is one of the most valuable guitars for professional use today.
I recommend a Carter, MSA, Derby, Zum, Mullen, and several other brands of guitars to the person that can't service the Emmons P-P guitars. The GFI is the easiest guitar in the world to change/service and play.
These players will be happier with the All-Pull guitars and the P-P guitars will be MUCH happier also! Yes, I hate seeing these great P-P guitars destroyed by folks trying to "reinvent the wheel", I've been playing the same "Wheel" for 32 years, 8 countrys, thousands of sessions, 30 years of TV, Opry,10 of my own CDs and it is as perfect as the day Jimmy Crawford set it up, (I didn't have time on this one, I used to be busy).
What kills these guitars is people, not time. The proof is in this post.
Bobbe |
|
|
|
Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
|
Posted 2 Nov 2005 6:06 am
|
|
I just align the linkage rods properly.
(What a piano tuner would do.) |
|
|
|
