ATA will bust open your locked instruments?

Joe Naylor · Post by **Joe Naylor** » 19 Oct 2005 6:05 pm

Our government employees only care when their next break is,they do not care one way or the other how things are packed back in a suit case. I took some bars to St. Louis and they were packed in cloth. Not only were they every where my all my clothes looked like they had been wore for at least a week a piece. This is not the only time our government employees have sturred the inside of my suit case. If you do not get that action from these zeros then you are just lucky. Keep travelin' and it WILL happen to you. They simply do not care.

:0 :0

------------------
Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix)Desert Rose Guitar, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Association

Dillon Jackson · Post by **Dillon Jackson** » 19 Oct 2005 8:55 pm

Good information. I was inspected to Las Vegas (in the back room) and nothing was hurt--though the foam was not packed in as tight as I had it. Now I am off to NYC next week. These folks aren't purposely distructive and I think that there is a 50/50 chance that they would rather not ruin a steel guitar--So Jim's Note idea is a great one which I will definately use.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 Oct 2005 11:11 pm

In addition to Jim Cohen's note I would add.

While I fully supoport security checks, I must advise you :

This is a precision, and very expensive, musical instrument.

PLEASE... Do NOT ever;
Lift it for inspection using the internal rodding or ANY other internal parts.
Doing so can cause hundreds of dollars of damage in a few seconds...

Do NOT grab by the strings on the other side either.

Please lift from either end of the body,
and if neccesary,
place on a flat carpeted surface,
if you MUST look under the instrument.

Also please remember that :
What's facing bottom in the case,
is NOT resting on the case bottom,
but on support struts.

It is top side for performance, so is esthetically important.

I am likely to be on stage with this instrument shortly after leaving the plane.
If it is broken or misaligned I am out of a job, after an expensive flight.
You can NOT find another to borrow easily, like a guitar...

Thank you for your consideration.

Print this out in HUGE letters and tape to the inside top if the case,
so there is NO DOUBT it is read.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 20 Oct 2005 4:56 am

David, do you really think the inspectors would take the time to read all this, and if they did, would they comprehend it? I doubt both counts.

------------------
Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Colm Chomicky · Post by **Colm Chomicky** » 20 Oct 2005 5:14 am

I suppose if you were really serious about protecting the underside and pass through a lot of airports with your steel, maybe it might be possible to retrofit a travel shield of some sort on the underside including handles to lift, otherwise the steel will be at risk of being lifted out by the rods. Maybe figure out a way to mount a sheet of clear Lexan (polycarbonate) to shield the underside (perhaps the existing leg sockets could but used to mount the shield with a machined stubs that mates with the sockets). Some padding that stays on the changer if lifted out and flipped. Seems like a hassle though.[This message was edited by Colm Chomicky on 20 October 2005 at 06:20 AM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 20 Oct 2005 6:57 am

The only thing to do is pack it as well as you can and hope for the best. If they are going to screw it up there is nothing you can do about it. Last flight I was on security yanked out the electronics to look at them on a Gibson jumbo.
The real problem is that there is no acountability. There is no way to find out who is "inspecting" or handling our possesions. They can do whatever they want with no problems ever. Its a real mess when you think that we have absolutely no recourse when the baggage guys destroy or steal our stuff.

Most of the time there is no problems so I try not to worry about it.

Bob

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 20 Oct 2005 8:26 am

Stu, We were originally hired by the radio station to play a benefit fund raiser at the fairgrounds on Kodiak. They also set up a gig at the MECCA Club for Friday night which was a lot of fun.

Chris, My experience was almost identical to Colm's. In our case, we departed D/FW to Houston then to Anchorage then short flight on ERA airlines to Kodiak. Our luggage was "Checked Through" so we never saw it again once we left D/FW.

TSA only checked us and our carry on as we entered the secure terminal area. I found two notices that my case had been searched on the outbound as well as return flights.

Whatever I had in my case was opened and just thrown back into the case to go where ever it happened to go. It appears they made no attempt to repack my picks,bar or cables as they were originally.

There were no TSA Agents at the ticket counters and the ones at the terminal entrances only checked us and our carry on.

I have flown many places in my life but this was my first flight where I took a steel guitar so I had no knowledge or understanding about being able to be with your equipment while it was being searched and as I said above, we never saw it again after the ticket agent threw it on a conveyor belt.

------------------
Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 20 Oct 2005 8:56 am

All I can say is I understand the concern all of you have for your belongings, but I do not understand why you don't take more active role in safety through the inspection process.
In my own poll of travellers in my office, and a few other flyfishing friends, no one had been denied the opportunity to provide a key and stand by to observe the inspection and approval had they asked. Six of the travellers flew to fishing lodges in Alaska. It's not like we are using political clout or anything like that.
Are you guys really asking to be there for the inspection and approval?
The process I am used to is much like travelling with a shotgun. You provide the key to the locked case, the case is opened, the gun and contents observed, and case locked again. Key returned. Chris[This message was edited by Chris Lucker on 20 October 2005 at 02:12 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 20 Oct 2005 2:48 pm

Chris,
Your friends have just been lucky so far. If you think you have any say at all about what the airlines do with or to your baggage you are living in dreamland. I have done exactly what you suggest for the last 20 flights I have been on. I even brought copies of the regulations printed out all nice. It meant absolutely nothing. Most of the time everything is cool but the underlying reality is "We don't care. We don't have to."
And yes, the real dirty work is done in restricted areas that customers have no access to. That is besides the normal dropping and throwing.

Bob

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 20 Oct 2005 4:19 pm

In a half hour or so, I'll see what George W. can do on this issue.
Maybe special steel sensors?

Dillon Jackson · Post by **Dillon Jackson** » 21 Oct 2005 7:33 am

I am thinking it might be wise to put two straps around the body running between the strings and the base on the downside so they can use the straps (not the rods and levers) to pull the unit up and look underneath. Its pretty clear that a little preventive thinking and a nice (short) handling note ending with a "Thank you for making flying safer" would reduce the risks. Ya its a suck up but, hey, these guys are holding your axe four feet above a concrete floor--you want them thinking nice thoughts.

------------------
Dillon Jackson
abiband.com
ZUM U-12; NV-1000

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 22 Oct 2005 7:39 am

when I brought my guitar from Europe it was locked.It got to my house one day late.They said it was stuck at the customs.Case was locked and never opened thru the whole process so I believe they had used an x-ray machine.No damage to the instrument but some tore up tolex,It could have been worse I guess so I`m not complaining.

Db

------------------

"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 22 Oct 2005 10:43 am

maybe the answer for those that travel regularly by AIR is to place two small handles underneath with short screws that do not go thru to the top side.

Along with a note like Jim Cohens..which is a great idea...

Maybe thinking in advance of the inspection process will help in stress relief...

I do have a question for those in the know...what happens if one of the inspectors really causes major damage..can you file a claim ? and with who ? SOMEONE is responsible for damage..[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 22 October 2005 at 11:44 AM.]

Colm Chomicky · Post by **Colm Chomicky** » 22 Oct 2005 12:43 pm

Tony, I did some checking on the TSA website.

Info to file a claim: http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=183&content=090005198011b3f8 (good luck, maybe they try to get you to exhaust your patience by filing against any of your own insurance first such as homeowner's policy, file against the airline, etc. before they will consider. Also if the TSA inspection is performed by a private contractor, you have to deal with that private contractor. They must be hoping you'll die or give up jumping over each bureaucratic hurdle that is set out in the way)

Info on transporting musical instruments - http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=0900051980069ab5&print=yes
Would not be bad to print this out as a basis for your apparent right to be present during the inspection of your instrument.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 26 Oct 2005 9:23 pm

Darvin, any chance they will read it partially
and act appropriately,
is better than no chance at all.

Colm, plexiglass plate is a great idea.

Better yet, add two metal or cloth handles that bolt onto the
leg sockets
that also holds the plexiglass in place.
THEN tape the sign on the plexiglass.

They can't get at the undercarriage, but can see in,
and you have directed then to an easy way to lift the steel properly.

AND If the sign says ;
"Please don't place the instruments top,
which is face down,
on a non-flat, non padded surface,
or it will cause damage."

At least then you have a fighting chance, for relatively short bucks.

Dillon Jackson · Post by **Dillon Jackson** » 27 Oct 2005 7:51 am

Recent Trip Experience: Seattle--NOT allowed to follow case to inspection (arrived NYC OK); Newark followed case to Xray (right on the same floor as ticketing in some airports)and offered to help open and repack if they needed to open it. Guy looked at the screen long and hard--then said it wasn't necessary to open it up. So I left happy. When it arrived Seattle two strings were busted and it obviously had been opened and (badly) repacked with my carefully padded bar, unpadded and rattling around. [yikes!] Only solution is to continue the strategies in this string. Try to help with opening, note to inspectors, add some sort of strap on handle to lift it out, and now I am going to think about trying to make the packing as simple as possible, so that when the repack the changes of messing up are reduced. Bar and picks, etc I'll pack elsewhere.

------------------
Dillon Jackson
abiband.com
ZUM U-12; NV-1000