Beginner - New GFI S10 or '73 Shobud Pro

[Eddie Kesler]

I'm a newbie to pedal steel, but a semi-pro musician on mandolin and guitar. I've recently borrowed a friends late model GFI Ultra II to get acclimated and see if I want to proceed and i love it. He's not interested in selling it unfortunately. He paid $1850 on eBay recently.

So, I'm on the scout for a pedal steel of my own. I really want to try to stay at no more than $2k at the moment. I'm curious the thoughts on whether to go for a brand new GFI S10 student model for $1600 from a reputable dealer like Sam Ash to have some support or I have found a guy who plays professionally 2-3 nights a week about an hour and a half from where I live. He's got a couple '73 Shobuds that he's refurbished and played himself for a little less than that, minus a case. Says they're in good working order.

I love vintage instruments and have a good collection of guitars and mandos that run the gamut of age and not scared to buy older instruments, but I've been told to be careful with pedal steels with all the working parts and it's also tricky to find a tech or luthier that can work on them.

Any advice or thoughts on which way to go would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Mark Hershey]

I'd go with the GFI Ultra.

[Mark Hershey]

Also, I'd encourage you to do a few searches about ShoBud's and GFI's. There's so many great previous threads on PSG gear. You'll find all sorts of useful info.

[Jonathan Cullifer]

GFI Ultra. They come up for sale periodically. A friend of mine recently bought one here in your price range.

[Ben Waligoske]

I assume those are single neck Buds? If the price is right, I personally would go Sho~Bud all day, especially if they are refurbished already (but you should confirm what that means). Certain parts will/can wear depending on the instruments history but if they’ve already been addressed, you’ve got nothing to worry about.

Sure, vintage instruments come with a little extra upkeep, but there’s way more tone and soul in a Bud than a GFI for my money...

[Marc Jenkins]

I have a perfectly functional GFI Ultra S10 and a somewhat clunky early 70’s Sho~Bud, also an S10. The GFI stays in tune better, and is much easier to play. I barely know that though, because I only ever play the Bud - the tone is incredible. The GFI sounds ok.

[Roger Rettig]

I'd say GFI too. All I will add, though, is that I wouldn't count on their being much in the way of technical support from a branch of Sam Ash. You'd be lucky if anyone in the store knows much of anything about steels.

GFIs are great guitars. I don't know too much about the age of Sho-Buds and their various pitfalls but I do know from experience - I had a Pro-111 D-10 - that pot-metal parts (knee-lever stops, etc) can fail disastrously. 'Refurbished' is fine as long as those parts have been retro-fitted with more suitable replacements. A modern guitar does away with those concerns which, as a newcomer to the instrument, you might find off-putting.

[Brian Hollands]

A '73 won't have any pot metal parts. It will be either rack and barrell or a two hole puller, the latter of which many Bud aficionados consider the best sounding of all the Sho-Buds. Given you've played a GFI, I'd try to play one of the Sho-Buds to see if you like it. You've at least hot a frame of reference. It may feel too clunky to you. It may feel fine. If you can play it for an hour or more that'll give you some insight into tuning stability. My 81 LDG stays in tune pretty well but I've heard of some that don't. Look up Georgia Steel Guitar Association too. It's in the links section or just google it. They're having a show on Sept. 9th in Conyers. May be worth the trip.
Main thing as a you're learning is to spend most of your time learning, not tinkering. If an old guitar is in good shape it can be reliable but you don't want a problem guitar inhibiting your progress.
Also note what changer a 'Bud of thst age has. It may have single up single down which could limit your copedent choices. I think most of the two hole pullers have two up one down which is less limiting.

[Donny Hinson]

Everybody's comment about a GFI Ultra, but you're talking about GFI Student Model? If the 'Buds in good playing shape, I'd take the 'Bud. You could always trade it later for a GFI Student Model, but not too many would give you a good 'Bud for a GFI Student Model.

Pros and cons:

The GFI Student is light weight, and new, and you'd have a color choice. A 3+4 is $1600, but it's a pull/release design. (Not the most desirable these days). Whereas, the 'Bud is nearby, so you can see and play it before you buy (and maybe haggle some on price due to the missing case). Not knowing the exact model and pedal/lever complement, I'd have to guess it's probably worth about the same, or a little more.

[Steve Spitz]

Ive owned both, maybe some things to consider:

Ive had old buds that required minimal attention, and played well. Ive seen old buds that would require more attention than I would be want to deal with, especially as a first steel.

The term “refurbished” is very general. What does that really mean ? Cleaned and lubed ? Great setup job by a real pro steel tech ? Worn parts replaced? Do you feel comfortable being the one to evaluate this ?

You dig the vintage vibe. Me too.

But this is a machine, and unless you truly trust your ability to evaluate the effects of wear on an older steel, a new machine might be a safer bet than an older machine.

As usual, Donny’s choice of a bud that plays well, vs. a student model GFI has merit. But if it’s the better GFI ultra vs. an old bud , the ultra may be safer for a first axe.

[Eddie Kesler]

Yes, to clarify...

Been getting acclimated on a borrowed GFI Ultra. Love it.

Question is between a new GFI S10 SM (student model, i presume), with warranty, from Sam Ash, whereas I have some support and liability or a couple different '73 ShoBuds "The Professional" that's been built from one double neck. The owner plays them both often and seems to know his stuff and has been very open with me about them. And they look good from the pics.

Hope to take a trip to go play them, but yes, just not sure what I'm getting into with a 45-year old machine with a lotta parts, being a newbie and all. I wanna learn more on how to take care of them and make adjustments, etc. but I want to just keep playing mostly for now.

Just trying to stay below $2k and these are a couple options with two totally different ages.

[Kevin Fix]

Been a Bud guy for over 35 years. Nothing wrong with a GFI. I also own a Mullen. I still like the tone of a Bud. Any question of tone of a Bud, just YouTube Lloyd Green. He is playing a 73 LDG. (Named after him).

[Bobby D. Jones]

I know it would be above your 2000 dollar limit. But if I was going with GFI, It would be an ULTRA.
With 3 Raise, 2 Lower changer as you grow, You could add about any copendent you want. The Ultra, has Stainless Steel changer fingers, The student model has aluminum fingers which can grove over time.
If you are going with a GFI ULTRA go to their website and deal direct with the factory.

I have had great success dealing with GFI direct, Even though I am second owner of a GFI Steel. They still treat me like family. Any question I have had they came right back with the answer.

No matter which guitar you pick, Good Luck and Happy Steelin.

[Damir Besic]

there is no comparing student GFI with pro series Sho Bud, unless Bud is complete basket case, it will outplay student GFI any day of the week, and as far as tone goes ‘73 Sho Buds are some of the best sounding steels ever made... you should try both and see which one you like better...

[Jeremy Threlfall]

If I were a beginner, I’d take a GFI ultra over a 45 year old ‘bud, but maybe not the student model GFI. The ‘bud will probably sound better. But I reckon you could do without the maintenance on an old guitar as a beginner. String spacing will be wider in the ‘bud than in the GFI fwiw. My 84 Pro-1 sounds as good as any other guitar i have, but I dont take it out anymore, and use a modern (Williams) guitar for most gigs. I use the ‘bud at home and for some recording jobs

[Mark Hershey]

If your budget is 2k you could probably find an Ultra in great condition used.

[Jeremy Threlfall]

Yup

[Dennis Montgomery]

I know the mantra is "never buy a student model, you'll hit your limits fast", but I just had a look and Sam Ash offers a 45 day return policy. You could always go with the GFI and play the heck out of it in those first few weeks. By day 45, you'll hopefully know whether the student model was the right decision or not...if so, great...if not, return it and take the experience you've gained to make an informed decision on a used psg

I just think jumping into the pool with a 45 year old instrument - that may or may not require tweaking far over your head - is a bad idea.

[Brint Hannay]

Also note what changer a 'Bud of thst age has. It may have single up single down which could limit your copedent choices. I think most of the two hole pullers have two up one down which is less limiting.

As a point of order, of the two-hole puller 'Buds, the single/single changer went with the barrels-behind-two-hole-pullers system, which is less limiting than the two up/one down changer, which went with fixed-swivel two-hole pullers.

On the other hand, dealing with the barrels is trickier than a system where all the tuning of changes is done at the changer end.

(Apologies to the OP for technicalities probably beyond what you need to be considering at this point!)

[Steve Spitz]

When I was just starting out, I couldn’t play well enough for the tone I was getting to matter much. Having an axe that played smooth, felt solid ,and consistently stayed in tune would far outweigh the cool retro bud vintage tone for me at that point.

Not needing to learn to tweak anything would be a plus.

Ironically, I learned on Sho-Buds and twin reverbs. I had the twin, and used buds were available.

I don’t remember sounding like Jimmy Day.

Until I put in the seat time, The rig wasn’t the main issue. That’s why I’d say save a bit more and buy a used pro modern steel. You may learn faster and enjoy the journey more. You can always buy/sell/ trade if you become fully addicted.

[Kevin Dooley]

Look at the GFI Expo. It will be closer to your price and better than the student (new)

[scott murray]

I play a 90s Sierra D-10 which I got for right around 2K. it's an amazing instrument with less issues than my old ShoBud, which I also dearly love.

there are great deals out there, just be patient and keep your eyes peeled.

don't limit yourself to two brands, and steer clear of student models. I guarantee you can find a great steel for the same price as the GFI you're considering.

[Bill Moore]

Go with the GFI, but not the student model. Find a good used pro model, Ultra or Expo. I have owned both brands, 4 Sho-Buds, 2 GFIs. As a beginner, you need a functional instrument, you can find lots of bad Sho-Buds and very few, if any bad GFIs. And don't rule out other brands, just make sure whatever you choose is in good working order.

[Steve Spitz]

I don’t think suggesting a new modern steel vs. a 45 year old bud constitutes “questioning the sound of a bud”

Some of the coolest, holy grail recordings were a bud, a pot pedal, and a fender tube amp. You don’t have to sell me on how great a Bud can sound.

I also think referring to a YouTube video of Lloyd Green as a realistic measure of how great a 73 bud sounds doesn’t really help the decision making process. It’s not what the OP is going to experience. You could find a CD/video of Mike Siglar burning it up, or Ronnie Miller with Charlie Pride on their GFIs, and it would be equally irrelevant.

It’s not the gun, it’s the shooter. If you learn to play well, and you still want an old Bud, you can find one. They made a zillion of them.

[Charley Bond]

There's a great Sierra for sale on the Forum. It's an S10 with 5 & 4. It's all you'll ever need. Check out Joe Wright on You Tube.

I've had 3 Buds & 4 Sierras, It's Sierra all the way. Get a good amp & don't look back.