hi wut guitar (s) is the best overall

Mark Sheppeard · Post by **Mark Sheppeard** » 2 Oct 2005 10:18 pm

I have talked with Carter and their steels are cheaper priced than most Manufacters today and their warehouse is out of Mesquite near Dallas TX does the Carter Stay in Tune real good? cabinet etc and what about the Pedal Action ? I know Emmons has good Sustain and a Twang to it that Carter dosen't have just a fact. but I've heard JOhn Buffington play CArter on Gospel and it sounds real Clean and resonates. I just have a good feeling about Emmons in comparison overall but im not sure cause I never actually played carter but maybe once can somone help me ?

Mark Sheppeard · Post by **Mark Sheppeard** » 2 Oct 2005 10:28 pm

just to confirm I'm not discrediting Carter It sounds real clean, im considering buying A CArter .I would like the best overall and I know it would be a Carter Or Emmons for Price probally. if I could afford a Good ShoBud I would buy a D10 because I know SHOBUD has best Pedal Feel and warm and Ringing Tone from what I 've played CAuse My Rayline did ..Im kinda wanting a D10 does anybody have a Good one for around $2000 or less ? thanks , Mark

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Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 3 Oct 2005 1:43 am

Mark, it's not a cheaper price, it's a lower price ,for many reasons, first and foremost is the manufacturing process. It's not a lower price because it is a lesser Instrument in quality.

this is where smart business 101 enters the picture....

Carter Steels do have Twang...it's not a fact that they do not.

Anyway, define Twang ....
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One Tele' player to another..

"How come when I play my Tele' it doesn't Twang.. but when you play it there's lots of Twang " ?
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A new Carter is probably in the cards in approx 30 days from ordering time.

If you want a good used Carter D10 you can probably find one here on the Forum in your price range, and you will not be disappointed.

If you prefer an Emmons, call Ron Jr and order one. I am not sure what the Emmons delivery time is these days, maybe someone can advise.

Hopefully this will not turn into another Carter vs all others thread..I could never understand why that happens anyway.

There are countless players here that own and play Carter Steels, I doubt you will find all that many complaints.

I have owned two Carter D10s. ( still have 1 ) both very reliable, yes they stay in tune and yes they have twang...by my definition...

but don't ask me to explain it.

and NO, my 9+8 D10 is not for sale...

To answer your question, which Guitar is best overall ?

the answer is ....the one you buy and are happy with...not the one I SAY is best....

keep this in mind, there are several very fine manufacturers of Pedal Steel Guitars out there..considering this is 2005, almost 2006, if a manufacturer is building Steels that do not have reasonable tone, good action and stay in tune,they should NOT EVEN BE IN BUSINESS....

good luck

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 03 October 2005 at 06:17 AM.]

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 3 Oct 2005 2:42 am

I can't really add anything to what Tony said. On the Carter Starter, they've cut corners on all the right places to make an incredible value. I know the pro models are better, and offer lots of features.
Bud Carter has lots of experience in steel design.

But tone isn't something you can take someone's word on. I'm not sure I would know what 'twang' really is, for example.
I think you should go to Mesquite and play one before you decide.

Mark Sheppeard · Post by **Mark Sheppeard** » 3 Oct 2005 9:08 am

ok I wanted to rephrase I do hear a twanging sound from a Carter but not like the traditional Emmons, I was typing fast and wasn't thinking sorry guys I as still wondering . what is the pedal Action onthe Carter compared to SHoBud is it smooth and easy to play? If its hard to press its seems hard for me, I have a hard enough time figuring out what strings and frets to play lol

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 3 Oct 2005 9:38 am

Mark, I have a D10 Carter, Emmons & Williams, all three are setup the same (5x8). The pedal action feels very close in all of them, to me they feel smooth and easy. I wear moccosins when I play as that is the most comfortable for me. They all sound good, and they all stay in tune.

I would strongly recommend you attending a Steel Guitar Convention or Showcase where you can talk in person to many of the builders and even test drive several of the ones that would more than likely be there.

Geo

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 3 Oct 2005 10:18 am

Mark,
All modern guitars are capable of very easy pedal action if they are adjusted properly. To me, the variable is the sound and overall 'feel' of the instrument. I wouldn't take ANYONE ELSE'S word for what is best when it comes to feel OR tone. There are no 'bests' when it comes to choosing a guitar -- there's only what YOU LIKE BEST. You can't rely on anyone else to tell you what YOU like best. Also, I've seen several cases where I really liked one guitar of a given brand and didn't like another.

There really is no such thing as the best overall pedal steel. You'll rarely get any two steel players to agree.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 3 Oct 2005 10:26 am

Mark, a lot of folks (especially beginners) want an Emmons because they think Buddy Emmons is involved. Like the previous posts state, Carter not only has a fine product at a great value, they can get it to your door before you die. Smart manufacturing and marketing. Great guitars. What is the wait on an Emmons? 6-9 months? I don't know.

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I'd rather be opinionated, than apathetic!

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 3 Oct 2005 10:38 am

Carters are very 'User Friendly', I discovered when I had one.
Easy to change the pedal and lever feel, and a struggle-free playing experience, essential when gigging.
If I start gigging again, (doubtful), I will get another Carter.

Mark Sheppeard · Post by **Mark Sheppeard** » 3 Oct 2005 3:46 pm

is the wait for a Emmons really 6 to 9 months ? they don't keep a many built on hand ? how long is carter usually about 4 to 6 weeks ?

Post by **Joey Ace** » 3 Oct 2005 3:57 pm

I've heard of people waiting much longer. I don't know what is is now. Call them and let us know.

If I wanted one, I'd buy used. No wait, and lower price.

Concerning your question about pedal action, they can be setup how you like them. I like easy (fast) action. I can play both my Emmons and Carter barefoot. I don't because my toes get in the way.

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 3 Oct 2005 4:15 pm

I vote for the Carter.

Most of the real tone is in the hands of the player anyway.

The Carter is a fine instrumernt that has been designed to accomadate those players that appreciate fine workmanship and a well built product.

I have played a carter for about three years and I am glad I made the move to Carter from Emmons Le Grande II. It is not better just different.

As previously stated, a majority of the tone you seek is in the hands... If you don't belive that - then you may need to spend more time talking/listening/studying pro players and surfing this forum. This forum is a wealth of knowledge. Thanks.

my $.02[This message was edited by Tim Harr on 03 October 2005 at 05:16 PM.]

Mark Sheppeard · Post by **Mark Sheppeard** » 3 Oct 2005 4:50 pm

thanks for all your help.. it seems that every one on the forum say that most guitars are basically the same in quality just different in characteristics none is better than the other. I believe there are comparisons like from an Ford Lincoln to a Caddillac or Mercedes to a chrysler Lebaron there has to be somethings better or more advanced in one brand than the other somewhere ! but now days I know that most are coming up close in competition

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 3 Oct 2005 6:15 pm

Did You Ever Play A GFI? SOBBY.

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Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 3 Oct 2005 6:17 pm

Sorry I Ment SONNY I Messed The Key. SONNY.

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Mark Sheppeard · Post by **Mark Sheppeard** » 3 Oct 2005 7:10 pm

CArter has the BCT technology and they sustain GReat ! from what I 've heard listening to them . Emmons has the PAtented Counterforce anti detune system which CArter dosen't have and Carter has BCt where fingers make contact with the wood for better sustain which Emmons dosen't have ! I checked by researching technical support ,so I think there are good qualities in several brands out there. I wish one Guitar could have both Features BCT and the Counterforce what do you guys think ? I believe staying in tune is important; cause I've worn my self out tuning and tuning , I just tune by ear when one of the pull strings go out . If we could just have all these innovations on one guitar

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 3 Oct 2005 8:39 pm

With a Carter you don't need anti-detuning devices or anything else other than a good amp and the basics. They come ready to play when you set them up. Very fine product built by a master, Bud Carter. Of course, there's other fine guitars out there, just depends on if you want it in 30 days, 6 months or a year in some cases.

Mark Sheppeard · Post by **Mark Sheppeard** » 3 Oct 2005 9:15 pm

I forgot to add that EMmons Patened THe No Cabinet Drop , on the other Hand BUd Carter said all guitars have a little Cabinet drop which most Guitars seem to detune some. The Legrande III or any Emmons with the Counterforce is supposed to have 0 Cabinet drop or plum near ..

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 3 Oct 2005 10:34 pm

Mark, they're all good nowadays...And, like Larry Bell said, if they're adjusted correctly they all play well and stay in tune.

Just make sure you get one that has the sound you're looking for...because when you're in the studio or on the bandstand, nobody's going to care how well it plays.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 4 Oct 2005 5:08 am

they all have cabinet drop..

Emmons has a patent I believe on the "Counter Force" gizmo used on the L-III's, thats not the same as a patent on "NO CABINET DROP"...

I think all this cabinet drop stuff is over-rated anyway....

Sounds to me like you are already convinced to get an Emmons..so you should just do it...

Just get a Steel and play it...

Tune it later....

t
[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 04 October 2005 at 10:23 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 4 Oct 2005 6:07 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I used to think the human brain was the most wonderful part of the body. Then I realized what was TELLING ME THAT.
-Emo Phillips<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most steel players think that what they have is best. It's human nature, but not always true -- from my perspective, at least.

The three best sounding steels I have ever heard are Emmons push-pulls, Sho-Bud rack and barrels, and ZB Customs. ALL have cabinet drop, none have counterforce adjustment, and all can be a pain in the butt to keep running smoothly but, after all, what comes out of your amp is what you build your reputation as a steel player on.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 4 Oct 2005 6:25 am

Mark, to answer your question, YES, Bud Carter makes an excellent guitar and his dedication to excellence and customer satisfaction is beyond reproach.

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www.phelpscountychoppers.com/steelguitar

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 4 Oct 2005 6:49 am

Mark, you are already in Texas. Take a drive to Carters shop. Talk to John, Ann or Bud himself. You may quite possibly like one that they have in floor stock. You can buy it right there and then. When you get home with it, play it, take some pictures of it and tell everybody how much you love it! We will all be anxious to see your new Carter!

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I'd rather be opinionated, than apathetic!

[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 04 October 2005 at 07:50 AM.]

Mark Sheppeard · Post by **Mark Sheppeard** » 4 Oct 2005 7:56 am

ok I don't already have my mind made up Im trying to figure out , I've played Emmons Legrande II which I don't believe had it the Legrande III has the counterForce which IS THE "No Cabinet Drop Patent " I've been Looking at CArter Im real interested in ordering one Mr Bill Carr said that you can get one usually in 4 weeks and thats also what their guarantee on the Other hand www.Emmonsguitar.net they don't tell you so I wrote to them . opinions are good and helpful but I want to know facts. like I said Carter has the BCT Technology for better sustain and EMmons has the Counterforce which is supposed to reduce Cabinet Drop if it works I don't know I was hoping someone who has the New counterforce could tell me , I've heard real good reviews about the CArter BCT , I still believe their are comparisons like from a Lincoln to a Cadillac or from Ford to chevy both have good and bad traits or used to LOL I know Ford had sorry front ends designs worked and owned em .. does someone have the Legrande III does does it have cabinet drop ?

Mark Sheppeard · Post by **Mark Sheppeard** » 4 Oct 2005 7:59 am

I will probally get me a CArter Thanks Curt I 'm going to get a S10 with a 4th pedal thanks all of you for your help