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Topic: Sho-Bud D# to D/C# knee lever returning flat |
Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 14 Sep 2005 4:07 pm |
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I did some research on this topic and came up with a little bit of stuff, but not enough to prevent me from asking again:
What can I do to remedy this problem on my late-70's Sho-Bud Pro 1? I just got this guitar, and the dealer that sold it to me doesn't seem interested in helping - despite the fact the price tag was as much as a new guitar.
I'm hoping someone here is willing to give me some hints. I have two gigs on the weekend and can't live without this change. Well, I guess I could live, but I'd be cranky. 
The lever returns the D# open string flat every time. I heard about adjusting the return springs, but don't know how to do it.
Thanks!!![This message was edited by Chris LeDrew on 14 September 2005 at 05:10 PM.] |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2005 4:47 pm
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Unfortunatly Chris; you probably have the later model Sho-bud with the non-adjustable return(lower) springs> meaning they hook on both sides.
What is probably happening(If there is no friction or binding in the rod going to and from) is the inharent problem in those later fingers as the lower arm of the finger has a pushing piece to control the top piece of the finger. That piece wears a groove in the top piece and so it will get stuck moving and keep the finger from being in a positive position every time. You can try removing the raise spring on that finger if there is one(that is the little flimsy spring up against the body of the guitar that attaches to the raise portion of the finger and a bracket mounted to the body). Or you will just simply need the new "Super fingers" that John Coop makes that corrects this problem with a ball-bearing roller.
Here is the discussion and pictures about the problem your having and the "super finger" fix for it.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/010916.html
I also can coach you on some more ideas for you fixing it yourself; but email me to tell me how handy you are and I'll give you my barage of more fix ideas(as I can get fairly wordy when it comes to technical/mechanical stuff..ha.)
Good luck pal.
Ricky[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 14 September 2005 at 05:50 PM.] |
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Michael Barone
From:
Downingtown, Pennsylvania
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Posted 14 Sep 2005 6:06 pm
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I had the same problem. I isolated the problem (in my case) to a weak lower return spring (Raise-assist springs removed). I swapped out the lower return springs, string 2 with string 7, and it solved the problem, string 2 returns to Eb dead on now.
John Coop is sending me new lower return springs so I can replace this and others. He just got them in. I need them now because I want to lower string 7.
My questions to Ricky here would be this: Is this just hiding the real problem temporarily, being the changer or fingers?
Or did I prove that the spring was the problem by swapping it, (in my case) fixing the problem?
------------------
Mike Barone
Sho-Bud Pro-1 5&4 with RHL | Nashville 112
Assorted Guitars & Keyboards |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2005 6:26 pm
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To answer your question Michael>
Yes you are hiding the eventual problem; simply by pulling it out of that groove with a stronger spring. But it will work for you for sometime(no telling how long)until that groove becomes bigger with the added tension of that said spring(and also even if you like that added tension maybe maybe not).
But that is certainly a good quick fix; but not a long time fix.
Another thing I've done is take the finger out...and swap it with a finger that doesn't show much wear/groove in that top piece(probably a finger that has never been lowered). Also another fix for sometime is when a finger is out that shows a groove in the top piece...>is to bend that lower arm piece ,in moreso; so that it now hits on a smoother spot of that top piece.
I do have more...but My Gosh////> the perfect fix is exactly what John Coop makes and it is ALL Sho-bud man and to me....>I don't care about the cost of anything that will give me a piece of mind that it will NEVER go wrong again> because when it does go wrong; it always seems to be at a gig or session when you need performance the most.
Ricky |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 14 Sep 2005 7:06 pm
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Boys,
I'm a happy man......I switched spring 2 with spring 7, and it now returns perfectly to a beautiful D#. I don't use a lower on string 7, so it's all good. Michael, thanks so much for your help....it worked, even if it is a temporary fix. Ricky, thanks for the experienced insight and the link to the added info. I guess I'll have to consider that upgrade down the road.
What a relief........that flat D# was really screwing up my LKR change (D# to E/ F# to G#) big time.
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2005 8:25 pm
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Good deal Chris> glad Michael's suggestion worked for ya...(for now anyway??ha.. 
Ricky |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 14 Sep 2005 8:35 pm
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Ricky,
If there are such flaws in the later 'Buds, why the high price tag? |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2005 10:16 pm
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That's a good question Chris; it behoves me to answer..
Ricky |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 15 Sep 2005 7:02 am
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| And I've got that buzzing sitar thing going on with a few strings as well, which according to some threads is due to the flaws in the changer as well. The more I learn about this design, the more worried I'm getting. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2005 9:27 am
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Sorry Chris; I don't know of any discussion blaming the changer fingers of the later sho-bud, to cause the buzzing or sitar sound(unless you actually see a gaping groove on top of the finger). I do believe there are other factors; as one major one is the wobbling of the rollers at the headstock; and if you don't wind alot of wraps up the tuning peg and create a little angle; you will get it> or just drop a bead of 3&1 oil on roller and the oil will run between both sides of the roller and quiet'en it.
Ricky |
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Michael Barone
From:
Downingtown, Pennsylvania
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Posted 15 Sep 2005 3:30 pm
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Chris, I'm glad it worked for you. But I will say this, we (Sho-Bud owners) really should keep Ricky's advice in mind, for the long run. At least now you can plan ahead to anticipate your next action.
Ricky, thanks again for your input, and for your help on many other issues.
Mike |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2005 6:19 pm
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Thanks for the support Michael and your sound advice also. The only reason I say "BUT you better do this"> is simply so Chris won't cuss me in a few months when it happens...ha...>then I can say: "I told ya so"....(eventhough I never would; cause I'm not a "i told ya so kinda guy">as that is alwasy beside the point of what we want to achieve in the moment).
Ricky |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 15 Sep 2005 6:38 pm
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You're both fine fellas in my book. I'm just happy and appeciative to have all 4 levers working for the weekend. It's good to know the cause of this problem, and also what needs to be done to permanently fix it in the long run. I plan to take advantage of John Coop's improved design somewhere down the road a bit. (I've gotten a University education in steel guitar from the forum.)
It's too bad about the mechanical issues of this era Sho-Bud, but ohhh....what a sound. It makes up for the time spent underneath it. |
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