Pull-Release E-Lower Woes {Simmons E9}

Tristan Shepherd · Post by **Tristan Shepherd** » 7 Apr 2018 3:21 pm

Howdy Everyone!

I've got a Simmons Pedal Steel that Bob built for me in 2014 - it's a S10 3/4 and has been playing wonderfully for the last 4 years - I play a bit of experimental music so I'm very picky about the tuning, and I must say, though limiting in terms of copedents pull-release guitars have rock-solid tuning.

So, my E lower lever does not seem to be returning to pitch. The E raise and the C pedal (on the 4th string) hold intonation perfectly, and the E lower has been returning to pitch flat, by maybe 10-20 cents - I use a peterson strobe tuner, so it's not just my imagination.

The pull release changer on my guitar uses a screw on the E lower bellcrank to set the open pitch, a nylon tuner on the endplate to set the raised pitch, and a screw on the endplate to set the lowered pitch.

I've already tightened the spring on the E lower lever, in hopes that there just wasn't enough tension to bring the string back to pitch, but alas it didn't do anything. Same with adjusting travel.

If any of you fellow travelers have any advice, i'm all ears - thank you in advance!

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 7 Apr 2018 5:52 pm

Tristan Shepherd wrote:I've already tightened the spring on the E lower lever... it didn't do anything.

OK, good first move.

It seems that there is some extra friction somewhere hanging things up during the return to pitch. I would separate possible undercarriage issues from changer issues by using a screwdriver or something to push on the changer finger to activate the lower. In other words, you're doing the work of the pull rod, but the knee lever and pull rod will be staying in place so they're temporarily out of the picture. Do you have a way to do this on your guitar? On an all-pull, you would just push on the plate next to the tuner. But you have a pull-release, so I don't know.... you may have to flip your guitar over to get access to the part of the changer that moves so you can get a screwdriver in there.

If it still doesn't return the pitch when directly pushing the on the changer, the problem is in the changer. I'm guessing the rivet that holds the mechanism together could use a drop of lubricant.

But if it does return to pitch correctly when directly pushing on the changer, that would point to the the undercarriage causing the problem. It's possible that one of the two pull rods (string 4 or 8) is rubbing against something preventing it's free movement. If so, bend and lubricate.

Tristan Shepherd · Post by **Tristan Shepherd** » 7 Apr 2018 6:48 pm

Thanks much Tucker -

I spent a little too much time with a flashlight in my teeth underneath the undercarriage with a set of allan wrenches tinkering and did not think to isolate the movement of the changer itself. Was getting hangry and now have shifted gears into making some baked mac and cheese.

I'll try that next. Only oil I have is Teflon lube in the house, hesitant to just start spraying that all over steel without a recco.....

Got a call with bob tomorrow who built the damn thing so if I solve the problem I'll post here for posterity!

-T

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 7 Apr 2018 11:33 pm

Put some oil on the roller nut

Greg Gefell · Post by **Greg Gefell** » 8 Apr 2018 4:18 am

Your E lowers knee lever might need a bit more travel. With pull release itâ€™s easy to start chasing your tail betweeen tuning the lower, the idle note and the raise since they are all on the same finger. There must be a little slack for things to come back true.

Tristan Shepherd · Post by **Tristan Shepherd** » 8 Apr 2018 1:08 pm

Greg, Richard, Tucker thank you for all the suggestions-

Of course, the simplest solution, and the one I didn't try first...

This was a weird one - had a tiny bit of corrosion in the fingers - a little deoxit (not oil) and some knee lever movement and the pedal is returning basically within a few cents.

It's been played in some dingy NYC basements so it's probably due for some spring cleaning at this point.

At the very least after this misadventure I feel much more comfortable adjusting the undercarriage of the guitar - I'll definitely be returning the spring tension almost back to where Bob Simmons built it, but I did like a little extra resistance in the lever!

Best,
Tristan

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 19 Jul 2019 6:27 am

I am trying to help a newbie guy with a Simmons.
Personally I am not completely familiar with tuning an Pull Release PSG.
We have searched the archives and talked with Mr. Simons.
The pedals and F lever are pretty good.
The E lower is super stiff and way out.
Could someone give me a step by step on this tuning procedure.
My fear is that this fellow may need Micky Adams to help him.
I was hoping to help him get it smoothed out and functional.
Thanks.

Tristan Shepherd wrote:Howdy Everyone!
The pull release changer on my guitar uses a screw on the E lower bellcrank to set the open pitch, a nylon tuner on the endplate to set the raised pitch, and a screw on the endplate to set the lowered pitch.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Jul 2019 10:07 am

Talk to Bob Simmons about this. I'm sure he can help you. https://simmonscustom.com/contact/

Gene Tani · Post by **Gene Tani** » 19 Jul 2019 5:04 pm

and since you mention Teflon lube, make sure it's not one of those "Dry" formulas w/paraffin or other solids in suspension

http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html

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Pull-Release E-Lower Woes {Simmons E9}

Pull-Release E-Lower Woes {Simmons E9}

Re: Pull-Release E-Lower Woes {Simmons E9}

Re: Pull-Release E-Lower Woes {Simmons E9}