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Topic: Double neck but with no pedals for C6 |
Tony Palmer
From:
St Augustine,FL
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Posted 22 Mar 2018 3:56 pm |
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After hearing Steve Palousek play a non pedal set at TSGA Jamboree using his double neck but with all the pedal rods removed, I wonder if there would be a market for a double neck with E9 standard pedals and levers but with a C6 neck without any?
Of course I’m implying such a guitar would be substantially cheaper as well, otherwise there’s no point.
Believe me, what I heard Steve play sounded exactly like normal pedal steel C6.
I couldn’t hear any difference by him playing it as a big â€lapsteelâ€.
Also, question for those who have doublenecks (I don’t): do you think you could get by without using any pedals or levers on the C6 neck?
Here’s his first song at the RA non pedal 2018 session. After I heard that, I wondered if I really needed a doubleneck, but didn’t want to carry a separate lapsteel and thought, why not duplicate that setup?
https://youtu.be/mSbB8yil5dY
_________________
Sierra S10 (three!), Peavey 112 and 115, Benoit dobro, Beard Model E dobro, Beard Roadophonic, MSA Superslide, Dean Nickless custom dobro
Last edited by Tony Palmer on 23 Mar 2018 5:58 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Paul Redmond
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2018 7:09 pm
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I don't use a D string, so when I go pedals-down, I have a straight A6th tuning on the E9th neck. I use standard E9th KL's to get the "6th" changes. I used to play E9/B6 Uni 12-string. I don't even do that anymore after discovering the above on only 10 strings. You don't have a BooWah, but who cares? Do like Curly did and use the bar!!!
PRR |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2018 4:23 am Re: Double neck but with no pedals for C6
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| Tony Palmer wrote: |
| ...do you think you could get by without using any pedals or levers on the C6 neck? |
Yes, most definitely. The great Jerry Byrd made magic with only a 6-string C6 non-pedal. The 6th tunings are laid out very well when it comes to musical possibilities. The only limiter is individual talent and creativity. I admit that six strings would be a stretch for me... but I have become quite proficient with a 12-string non-pedal steel, and an 8-string resonator. Now, I find myself using the pedals less and less on my D-10 back neck. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 23 Mar 2018 5:15 am Re: Double neck but with no pedals for C6
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| Tony Palmer wrote: |
After hearing Steve Palousek play a non pedal set at TSGA Jamboree using his double neck but with all the pedal rods removed, I wonder if there would be a market for a double neck with E9 standard pedals and levers but with a C6 neck without any?
Of course I’m implying such a guitar would be substantially cheaper as well, otherwise there’s no point.
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I really don't think so. Such a guitar would still cost hundreds more than a single neck, and even that amount seems to be a stumbling block for many players. Also, there's that nagging present attitude among most that "the more pedals and levers, the better", and I don't see that changing...unless most all of the pros would take up the less-is-more mentality, too. And that ain't gonna happen. 
I can play certain songs well without pedals on C6th, but others (that have been done with pedals by others) are just beyond my mediocre capabilities. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2018 7:20 am Re: Double neck but with no pedals for C6
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| ...unless most all of the pros would take up the less-is-more mentality, too. And that ain't gonna happen... |
It "could" happen... Much like in the mid 90's, when rock drummers ditched the double-bass monster sets in favor of a four-piece with very few cymbals.
Then again, my fear is that the trend is moving towards lead guitar players sitting at a pedal steel for one song just to make a few cliché twang sounds... and I think these inexpensive 6-string pedal steels are encouraging just that... |
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Ronnie Boettcher
From:
Brunswick Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2018 8:10 am
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I fully agree with Paul's statement. Pedals down, your in a A6th. Lloyd Green told me that, way back in the late 60's. And that is why I am happy playing my LDG.
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142 |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 23 Mar 2018 9:15 am
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Tony, my instant response was "why not?". On the C6, pedals 5,6 and the useful bit of 8 are replicating slants that players did routinely for years. So you could do a lot with no pedals. (I couldn't 'cos I never learnt how!  )
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2018 10:19 am
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| Paul Redmond wrote: |
I don't use a D string, so when I go pedals-down, I have a straight A6th tuning on the E9th neck. I use standard E9th KL's to get the "6th" changes. I used to play E9/B6 Uni 12-string. I don't even do that anymore after discovering the above on only 10 strings. You don't have a BooWah, but who cares? Do like Curly did and use the bar!!!
PRR |
Paul, so what do you tune instead of a D on the string 9 (or am I misunderstanding?).
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2018 10:27 am
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| Thanks for posting the video, Tony. Watching Mr. Palousek get all that music with no pedals and very few slants was very instructive and enjoyable. My perspective is that of a novice player, but I think an E9 pedal/C6 non-pedal D10 is a great idea and I would definitely be interested. |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 23 Mar 2018 2:37 pm
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| I remember doing some gigs years ago with Al Perkins, and he had his back neck tuned A6, no pedals. He sounded authentic Texas swing on it, and being that Al's from Midland/Odessa, that figures... |
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Paul Redmond
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2018 5:46 pm
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Brooks - I moved the low B up into the 9th slot and added a low G#. That G# raises to A along with #3 and #6. I pull the low B to D on a KL. In effect it's an E9/B6 Uni tuning without the two bass strings and using the A6th side of the E9th tuning to get my "6th stuff" instead of flatting the E's and using the B6th. Using the standard E9th KL's will allow for most all the standard "6th" changes. For example, if you keep the pedals down and flat the E's, that gives you the same chord the 5th pedal on a C6th neck gives you. Let up on the pedals and pull B to D, now you have a V chord. Flat the C# raises back to C, and you have a IV chord. There you just played a 4-chord "6th" song and never even moved the bar!!! Using only pedal 1 and pulling B to D will give you the same results as if you used pedals 5 and 6 together and moved one fret left on a C6th neck. It just goes on from there. I rarely take a 12-string Uni guitar out anymore....I'm finding 99% of what I need on the "short Uni" 10-string and only three pedals instead of 7 or 8....much lighter guitar for sure.
PRR |
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Tony Dingus
From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2018 7:17 pm
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Buddy Emmons played a lot of C6 single string solos without using his pedals. I remember seeing a picture of a Rains with a 10 string nonpedal C6 neck.
Tony |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 23 Mar 2018 9:36 pm
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I'm sure there are plenty of builders who would be happy to build a D10 with a non pedal C neck.
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Bob |
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 24 Mar 2018 7:17 am
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| Paul Redmond wrote: |
....I'm finding 99% of what I need on the "short Uni" 10-string and only three pedals instead of 7 or 8....much lighter guitar for sure.
PRR |
Love the idea of a 3 pedal 10 string uni! |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2018 5:51 am
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Paul, thanks for the explanation .!
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A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2018 10:57 am
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I mainly use the pedals on my C6 neck for chord inversions and for different chordal structures.
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Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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