Why are old MSAs worth less?

David Wright · Post by **David Wright** » 20 Mar 2018 4:10 am

Tone starts in your hands, as far as working on them, easy, well built, and yes heavey...
There is a ton of great players here in Texas, and yes, they can get Nashville tone on a M.S.A....Don't forget, P.F ..Tommy White , Curly, played the back in the day...

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 20 Mar 2018 4:17 am

I'm not thinking only of steels when I contend that players have a sound but instruments don't. A good instrument (to a given player) is one which allows him to achieve his sound; his favourite instrument is the one that gets it the most easily. A bad instrument (to him) is one that is not worth persevering with; someone else might love it.

Joseph Napolitano · Post by **Joseph Napolitano** » 20 Mar 2018 4:32 am

Anyone have a problem with Junior Knight's "tone" ? Didn't think so.

Michael Weaver · Post by **Michael Weaver** » 20 Mar 2018 5:13 am

My first "good" pedal steel was a brand new MSA Classic D-10 with 8 & 2 purchased from Tiny Wright's Music Shop in downtown Lancaster, PA. This was somewhere in the mid 70s. Plywood, of course, and quite heavy. Then, approx. 4 years later, I ordered a Vintage XL from the Music Center in Ephrata, PA, with 9 & 7. Beautiful maple body. If I remember correctly, I think I paid around $2,600 for it. I sold that guitar for $1,700 approx. 14 years ago, and wish to this day that I still had it.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 20 Mar 2018 5:16 am

The reason I donâ€™t play an old MSA is because of the sound. The highs are fuzzy and the lows are muddy and the mids are unfocused. They donâ€™t hold there own in a cluttered mix. I have listened to truly legendary players playing MSAs live. They sounded fine when playing solo or when being featured. When they played backup all the notes played below the 4th string disappeared. When I play them I feel like Iâ€™m trying to cut a steak with a butter knife.

I canâ€™t think of the last time I saw an old MSA on stage in Texas.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 20 Mar 2018 5:37 am

Why are they worth less???

The cold cynical truth is Politics...Like everything else in life, people follow the leader it's a human nature thing, that's why they have endorsements, it's the same in golf or guns, or anything we do.

Sho-Bud/Emmons was Buddy's work of art, a Nashville based company, so Nashville players played them, and Nashville players made hit records, Soooo you buy a Sho-bud or an Emmons if you want to sound like them, we know that's not the case but at least we think it is for a while.

MSA micro is my fave of all time from that era, butter smooth, very attractive and put together with particular people who cared about every detail, you got to love that silk screened fingerboard....They should be worth more than a Sho-Bud!!!

Dustin Rigsby · Post by **Dustin Rigsby** » 20 Mar 2018 7:40 am

Maybe we should all just play sho bud permanents and b/f twins...I canâ€™t believe I let myself get sucked into this thread...

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 20 Mar 2018 12:10 pm

I am no marketing guru, but I do know that things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. That's all.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 20 Mar 2018 12:16 pm

Ian Rae wrote:I am no marketing guru, but I do know that things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. That's all.

there is another thread going on right now about 1K Maverics, where this statement would fit perfectly ....

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 20 Mar 2018 12:22 pm

Chance Wilson wrote:because we can't get our priorities straight. Unless you can play better than this, I wouldn't worry about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w-A3kIF4dY

Nobody can play better than that...
He could play any pedal steel and sound great,, many of us mere mortals need all the help we can get..

Many players [ like me] owned, played, and loved MSA guitars for many many years, but felt it was trade off.. To me they didn't have the sound I was drawn to, but were so reliable and so tuning stable, we played them regardless..
I have said it a thousand times before... The MSA lacquer guitars were a better sounding guitar by a good margin than the mica MSA guitars.. A good single coil instead of that big SS humbucker made a big difference as well... bob

David Wright · Post by **David Wright** » 21 Mar 2018 2:09 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjd1jWl4jRk

Dustin Rigsby · Post by **Dustin Rigsby** » 21 Mar 2018 9:23 am

Yeah David I feel like Iâ€™m slamming my head against a brick wall extolling the virtues of a vintage MSA guitar, because as an earlier poster proclaimed, people listen with their eyes ! Thatâ€™s a good pedal steel sound ! Curly had a good sound too !

Ed Boyd · Post by **Ed Boyd** » 21 Mar 2018 10:51 am

David Wright wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjd1jWl4jRk

Who is playing steel?

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 21 Mar 2018 4:17 pm

Ed Boyd wrote:
David Wright wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjd1jWl4jRk
Who is playing steel?

Ed, that is Mr. Paul Franklin I believe.

~Bill~

Ed Boyd · Post by **Ed Boyd** » 21 Mar 2018 5:51 pm

Thanks. This is way back. It predates the Afro hairdo and mustache days.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Mar 2018 6:43 pm

Dustin Rigsby wrote:Yeah David I feel like Iâ€™m slamming my head against a brick wall extolling the virtues of a vintage MSA guitar, because as an earlier poster proclaimed, people listen with their eyes ! Thatâ€™s a good pedal steel sound ! Curly had a good sound too !

I'm with you on that, Dustin! But apparently, not everyone knows how to get a good sound with the ol' MSA guitars. Mostly, it just takes a little skill, and a willingness to not try and make it sound like something else.

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 21 Mar 2018 8:42 pm

Back to the original question, "Why are old MSAs worth less." 1. the weight 2. the darker sound. That's not a slam on the guitars, its just a matter of what more people seem to prefer. MSAs and Marlens are the best bang for the buck out there.

Dustin Rigsby · Post by **Dustin Rigsby** » 22 Mar 2018 4:44 am

Dustin Rigsby wrote:Yeah David I feel like Iâ€™m slamming my head against a brick wall extolling the virtues of a vintage MSA guitar, because as an earlier poster proclaimed, people listen with their eyes ! Thatâ€™s a good pedal steel sound ! Curly had a good sound too !

Donny Hinson wrote:I'm with you on that, Dustin! But apparently, not everyone knows how to get a good sound with the ol' MSA guitars. Mostly, it just takes a little skill, and a willingness to not try and make it sound like something else.

I didnâ€™t at first. It was just trial and error and a little help from Telonics and Marvin Born. If you have to ask someone what their amp settings and profex parameters are, you might struggle to find â€œyour soundâ€.....

Harold Parris · Post by **Harold Parris** » 22 Mar 2018 1:47 pm

MSA made a top of the line guitar during this period. The sound is in the setup and picker's abilities. I owned two MSA's in the early to mid seventies. The guitars were a little heavy but were built from hard maple die board which is and was the best material available then and now. The mechanics were almost indestructible and last for years and years.
There were hundreds of guitars sold during this time and you could buy a new guitar with little or no wait time. The market was flooded and rightfully so as Maurice and Bud had the right setup and a beautiful guitar, however the steel guitar players are getting older and have a lot more ailments now than we had in the 70's and 80's. Everyone is looking for a lighter guitar to carry and the Mighty Zum was introduced. It became a status symbol to be a Zum owner. Zum made and make a great guitar but a Zum is no better than a MSA.

Supply and demand, what kind of guitar "the real pickers" are playing and simple fading fad is the reason an older MSA is not as marketable as some other guitars. They are great guitars and as good mechanically as any.

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 22 Mar 2018 4:53 pm

I've read that Reese set up a blindfold test and people (Steel players) could NOT identify the MSA by the sound.

Back in the '80s, a Sho-Bud owner told me that MSAs didn't stay in tune. I didn't argue; just said, "Well, mine does."

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 23 Mar 2018 3:19 am

My first good steel was a MSA Classic that I found at Sam Ash, in Paramus, NJ, in 1978, for $700. I used it until 1985, when I bought a new Mullen. The decision to buy a new guitar was a result of the MSA having only 2 knee levers and an inability to find parts for a couple more levers.

It seems that most of these guitars, that have knee levers in the left, have them too far to the right, which I believe is going to be uncomfortable for a lot of people. The pedals on mine were placed too far to the right, as well. Moving these to the left, as I understand it, is difficult. Of course, the weight of these guitars has always been a factor.

Dustin Rigsby · Post by **Dustin Rigsby** » 23 Mar 2018 11:42 am

Rich Peterson wrote:I've read that Reese set up a blindfold test and people (Steel players) could NOT identify the MSA by the sound.

Back in the '80s, a Sho-Bud owner told me that MSAs didn't stay in tune. I didn't argue; just said, "Well, mine does."

Darvin Wilhoite has done a similar test. Very few could tell the difference in a blind listen. Iâ€™m not saying that vintage MSA guitar is the be all end all, but they are highly undervalued and unfairly maligned compared to the more famous of its same era vintage steel guitar counterparts.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Mar 2018 2:06 pm

Though still lower than some brands, values of MSA guitars have gone up considerably in the past few years. Their "Classic" series was the first really modern all-pull guitar, built with quality materials and parts made using precision N/C machining. They didn't use plain steel (which rusts) or cheap aluminum castings.

Jim Cooley · Post by **Jim Cooley** » 31 Mar 2018 7:35 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A11AjwV4wSU

Allan Jirik · Post by **Allan Jirik** » 1 Apr 2018 5:33 pm

I had a Sho-Bud in the 70s. I bought a '74 MSA S-12 in 2010 and yeah, I didn't like the tone until I put a Wallace True Tone pickup in it. Yes, it's a different animal and will probably not ever be on the steel hit parade of favorites but all I have to do is listen to Curly play Heart Over Mind with the Wilburn Brothers and I feel like that is my goal, to play and sound like that.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Why are old MSAs worth less?

Donâ€™t sound dark to me !

Re: Donâ€™t sound dark to me !

Re: Donâ€™t sound dark to me !

MSA 70's and later Pedal Steels