Suggestons for strings going out of tune.

Jack Latimer · Post by **Jack Latimer** » 27 Jun 2005 4:47 pm

I'm learning on an MSA Sidekick. (I know....someday I'll splurge, but for now it's great for a beginner to learn on.) The strings seem to contantly be going out of tune. Are there any suggestions to improve on this? The 10th string "B" seems to be the worst for this out of tune problem. I get things perfect and within a half hour of practice time I need to retune again. Also, just curious to know how often others have to retune?

Damien Odell · Post by **Damien Odell** » 27 Jun 2005 5:01 pm

Have you checked your springs underneath? If they're old they may not be returning all the way, I had a similar problem and when I replaced all the springs the problem was solved.

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 27 Jun 2005 6:55 pm

Jack,,

I check my steel at the end of each set, depending on weather, age of strings,,,,some times have to touch them up, sometimes not...

Larry

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Emmons S/D-10, 3/4, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 27 Jun 2005 9:12 pm

It sounds like maybe your strings are slipping at the tuning pegs, there really isn't any place else for things to continually slip out of tune as you describe.

Perhaps you already do this, but when you wrap the string around the tuner be sure to take the first turn over the cut off tail of the string and then take all the remaining turns under it - this causes it to tighten on itself so that the tighter you tune it the more firmly it grips itself.

On the E9 3rd string (.010 or .011)I fold the cut-off tail around the first turn and pass it back through the peg, pinching it in a similar fashion between the successive windings. Otherwise, at least on my guitar anyway, it will surely slip.

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 27 Jun 2005 9:21 pm

I seem to remember that the Sidekick is sort of a pull release system. You tune the raises with the pedals down, then tune open at the endplate. I remember that on my Sidekick, the tuners at the endplate would work loose after a short while and I had to adjust them again... I think that I finally pulled the tuning screws and put some teflon thread tape... (like plumbers use)... on the threads, then put 'em back in. That seemed to tighten things up enough to make a big difference in the tuning stability.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 27 Jun 2005 9:27 pm

Checking the springs first would be a good start. After that I would oil all of the moving parts under the guitar and make sure everything is moving freely. Another thing that might help is having your tuner and guitar on at the same time. In other words, coming out the guitar thru the tuner to the amp or whichever way you want to run it. This way you can check the strings while your playing without having to stop and plug in a tuner then do it all over again. Not being negative but simply being honest, a lot of the beginner model guitars I've seen over the years all have had problems with tuning(Sho-Bud mavericks mainly). I think Sierra and Carter probably have good beginner models but I well remember trying to teach students that had the old mavericks. Keep working on it and good luck. By the way, if I remember right, the little MSA sidekicks were one of the better models also!

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 28 Jun 2005 12:58 am

Along with all the other good mecanical suggestons, another issue is strings.

If you are not using new, good quality strings that can also contribute to tuning problems.

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 28 Jun 2005 7:41 am

Or, the best solution to string breakage, string tuning issues, and gear weight.....

I might start playing harmonica.

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 28 Jun 2005 9:32 am

Jack, before you blame the guitar,remember that strings change pitch with temperature change. When you first start playing, the strings are at room temperature. After a half hour of playing they are somewhere between room temperature and your 98 degree body temperature. One way to minimize the temperature shift is to rub the strings for about a minute with the palms of your hands before you tune.

Jack Latimer · Post by **Jack Latimer** » 28 Jun 2005 10:18 am

Some great suggestions! What a great forum. I've done the oiling, and I'm using Jagwire strings. I'll try the other suggestions and see what happens. I just took a look and I think the string wrap suggestion might fix this. Although this is an entry level PSG, I'm still very happy with it - (besides the one string problem). Thanks for the help folks!

Graeme Smart · Post by **Graeme Smart** » 29 Jun 2005 9:15 am

This is a pretty crazy fix, but it worked great for me on a single neck steel that I started on. I was having the same prob, strings sliding out of tune after just a few minutes. The tuning machines did not have any screws on them, so couldn't be tightened or adjusted at all. So I took some long rubber bands and wrapped them up each side of the tuners. I started by hooking the band over the first tuner, pulling it back, then twisting it on itself, then to the next, over it, then twisting it back and around itself, then to the next and so on. This is very cheesy, I know, so don't start flaming me. BUT it worked GREAT. I could tune the dumb little thing up and it would hold very well...the problem was simply that the tuners were too loose to work. And the two big rubber bands fixed it--held them tight.
grae[This message was edited by Graeme Smart on 29 June 2005 at 10:16 AM.][This message was edited by Graeme Smart on 02 July 2005 at 01:02 PM.]

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 29 Jun 2005 10:14 am

It sounds like maybe your strings are slipping at the tuning pegs...

I think my Emmons p/p has this problem also, due to the old Kluson butterfly style tuners. They tend to slip after a while.

I remember that on my Sidekick, the tuners at the endplate would work loose after a short while...

I have never seen a Sidekick mechanism, but this sounds similar to the p/p Emmons. You could try a product like Loctite (the non-permanent type that allows adjustment) or something I found called Vibra-Tite, which is similar, to help keep the screws from working loose. (You see this stuff on the end-plate screws of push/pulls.)

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Ron · Post by **Ron** » 3 Jul 2005 12:50 am

. If the nut is not a roller nut and a friction nut, the friction could be the problem. If the string grove is not big enough for the string to slide in the grove, it will change tune when played. Use the martin guitar string winding methad at the tuners and dont put to on many windings as these will slip for a long time until all the windings are tightened. Always tune from low to higher pitch!! Never tune down to pitch.

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 3 Jul 2005 3:44 am

I installed locking nuts with fine tuners right behind the rollers, no more tuning flux due to hysterisis (spelling?), guys who use keyless guitars now know what I mean

Jack Latimer · Post by **Jack Latimer** » 3 Jul 2005 5:20 am

Thanks to all who have replied so far. I checked the sting wind and I did have too much string on the peg and the wind was bad as well. I changed the string and how I had it wound. I'll try this for awhile and see how things go. Thanks for all the tips!

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 3 Jul 2005 5:34 am

Once I get a new set of strings broke in I have to touch up the tuning every so often but not as much as I'd heard was needed on an Emmons push pull. I play my guitar every day and so far it stays in tune pretty well till I move it to another location. Good luck with your problem.

Rick