Poppin them 0.11's again!

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 28 May 2005 2:44 pm

Seems like the weather & humidity can cause alot of breakage with the "G" wire on my E9th. Last night it took (3) brand new Ernie Ball 0.11's before I could get one to tune up to pitch open without breaking, much less mashing the pedal. VERY FRUSTRATING! Me & several others had this same problem a few years ago with a bad batch of George L's.
Question to Mr. Hoolahan or any of you guys that use the Jagwire strings.
Do they sometimes break like this? If not, I might be tempted to try a package of the Jagwire 0.11's to see if they'll hold up.

Nick[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 28 May 2005 at 10:30 PM.]

John Bresler · Post by **John Bresler** » 28 May 2005 4:04 pm

Nick:

Give Frenchy Meisser a call. I used to break .011's and bought them by the gross. Then I tried Frenchy's (Manufactured by S.I.T) because the 11 is a reinforceed string and so is the .017. Since switching I never break a string. I pick a U-12 Mullen.

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 28 May 2005 4:20 pm

Nick.Not sure but i believe it was Tom Bradshaw had an article about this subject 30 or more years ago. ( think it was Tom Bradshaw).Any how i found it to be true.Some new strings break as you first put them on.As the artical said and i can't remember it word for word but it had something to do when the strings came off the roll of wire they were being made from.Something about as the roll gets near the end the wire becomes weak because of reasons i don't recal.I have had strings last a year with out breaking one playing six nights a week and others when first put on and tuning up.So there you go.This is only my personal opinion but i believe we all hear different and many what we have been told sounds best or who play what.
On the the other question that was asked,for over 40 years i used a D9th tuning with an added 6th.Later added the 6th with a knee lever.No one was ever able to tell if i was playing the 9th or C 6th.I think many old timers were playing universial tuings before they were called that.Remember,Chalker and all the other greats were playing 8 string steels years ago.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 28 May 2005 6:31 pm

.[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 28 May 2005 at 07:32 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 May 2005 6:34 pm

I used to break a lot of Ernie Ball .011s when I used them on an Emmons push pull. I stopped using Ernie Ball strings and switched to a Sierra keyless at about the same time. I still don't know if it was the guitar or the strings, but I remember going through 6 of those Ernie Balls on stage one night before I found one that would tune up to G#.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

Kenny Forbess · Post by **Kenny Forbess** » 28 May 2005 6:47 pm

Nick,
Are you putting enough wounds on the string so as to get past the hole in the tuneing key shaft, on the last couple of wounds ?
I find it works very well on a p/p.
My 66 don't eat strings if I follow this method.
BTW, I use SIT's

Kenny

Forgot to mention, I've changed to .012 on the 3rd,, it seems to stay longer and sounds and tunes soooo much better.[This message was edited by KENNY FORBESS on 28 May 2005 at 07:50 PM.]

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 28 May 2005 8:27 pm

Question to Mr. Hoolahan or you guys that have your picture on the Jagwire sets. Do their brand new ones sometimes break like this?

NEVER
And Danny's last name is spelled Hullihen!!>or "KING"; either one will work.

Also Kenny Brings up a valid point; as stabilizing that string on the tuning post is VERY important> at least 5 wraps if not 7.
Ricky[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 28 May 2005 at 09:30 PM.]

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 28 May 2005 9:14 pm

I switched to Jagwire 11's.I just hang em on any ole way.They last forever......bb

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 29 May 2005 2:03 am

Nick, the answer to your question from where I sit is YES..they all break...

A few months back I switched over to Jag's..I like them just fine..but

on the first set the 1st string broke out of the gate and the 5th string broke the next night during the first set.

Both broke right above the wrap at the ball.

And yes, I polish the bridge , clean the rollers and wrap many times at the post.

Both replacement strings are still on the Steel. .

There is no such thing as 100% reliability.

This string conversation drives me nuts..personal useage and playing style has more to do with the life of the strings than any other single factor provided the obvious is done correctly..no burrs, plenty of wraps etc...

just because we buy a pack of 12 replacement strings DOES NOT MEAN ALL 12 are GOOD !!!

How much faith are we supposed to have in something that costs .50 cents ?

Hello..?? McFly ....??

t

Oh and to qualify my position, I am not an expert, far from it..but I am smart enough to know that strings do break...especially 3 and 5...[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 29 May 2005 at 03:08 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 29 May 2005 6:08 am

Years ago I switched to a .12 gauge for the 3rd string. It lasts longer and you get a better tone from it. Try it, you'll like it!
Erv

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 29 May 2005 6:55 am

Nick, as mentioned it could just be a "bad batch" of strings. I've encountered that on various brands. A different batch from the same vendor and no more problems.

When I got my Franklin (new) I was also sent a couple of extra sets of Bill Lawrence strings (what he was using on new Franklin's at the time). I wasn't breaking strings but I was having problems tuning or staying in tune. I put on a set of Emmons that I had and bingo no more tuning problems. As it turned out Bill had acknowledged that he had got a "bad batch" of strings.

BTW, our next club Jam is Wednesday, June 8th. I expect to see you there

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 1 Jun 2005 11:33 pm

I agree w/ Erv, 012's last longer and sound better. I've used them for the last 25 years. When I was gigging regularly, I'd get 3-4 nights out of one string.

I also quit using Ernie Ball 011's or 012's. If you look at the windings on Ernie's, there are only 5 or 6 loose winds @ the ball end. Most other string brands have an additional 3-4 tight wraps after those loose wraps which reinforce the string.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 2 Jun 2005 12:20 am

Part of this is metal heat and stretching issues.

If the wire used is wound close to the spindal for it 's stored life, ie the end of the rool),

and if the machine unwinding the spindle
and doing the wrapping goes fast,
it is putting force on the metal and changing it's physicaly settled position,
too quickly for the heat to be adequately disapated.

So the wire gets microscopic cracks.
It is THEN rewound into another position and put in the paper envelope.
it LOOKS fine, but may not be.

If you the p[cker are too fast trying to bring it up to tension, these small cracks react to the heat of your stretching the string and finally part ways.

So get the string on, more wraps isn't a bad idea. And be SLOW about tuning it up.

The slower you go the less heat and more evenly the metal can change its form to match the needed tension.
Then also go slow those 1st few pedal movements too.

I have little problem or no with Jagwires ever.
I have broken many other strings on Rose Bud

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 2 Jun 2005 1:54 am

Jagwires work for me. Ofcourse I've broken a couple, but not more than you would expect.

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

Mike Archer · Post by **Mike Archer** » 2 Jun 2005 5:27 am

nick is the string breaking on changer end or roller nut end? somtimes during the string making process they overtwist the
ball end this makes the string weak about
1/2 inch and they break therefrom ball end
if roller end breaks check roller for
a burr and also check the hole in key
make sure string winds well over the hole
and on to shaft
this is a very ugly thing to happen to
a player it happened to me one day at
sound check just before i had to play on the
opry in nashville i went out and got new
#11s and got it fixed boy what a nervous
wreck i was hope this helps
mike

Scott Appleton · Post by **Scott Appleton** » 2 Jun 2005 7:59 am

E.B. does not make psgs go for the Jag's or sits or frenchys check for rough spots on the changer.
Where exactly are the strings breaking?

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Mullen S12 Almost Mooney
71 Tele, Regal 45
Sho Bud S10 NP
Line 6 Flextone 3 + JBL D130, Acoustic 100 W all tube, Nash 112
digitech 2101 FX

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 2 Jun 2005 10:28 am

Nick, FWIW I used Ernie Balls for years and would break my 3rd usually after three nights. I switched to Jagwires a little over a year ago and have played with the same set for the last three weeks, 4 nights a week and still haven't broken one.

I have a second guitar that I practice on every night and I have had set of Jagwires on it for two months now and haven't broken a 3rd yet. I like them.

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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 2 Jun 2005 10:37 am

After going through a bad batch of name brand 11ga, I put on a new set of Jagwires. They have been on my guitar longer than I care to mention and I have not broken one yet.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 2 Jun 2005 12:33 pm

I've had better luck with 0.0115's.

David Spires · Post by **David Spires** » 2 Jun 2005 1:12 pm

Hey Nick,

If you haven't tried Jagwires, you really should give them a whirl. My experience with them has been great, and like many others, I have changed to an .0115" on the 3rd E9th string.

I used to use Ernie Ball, GHS, then SIT. As far as string breakage went (yes, I know any brand can get into a bad batch - and this is only my experience), Ernie Ball was the worst for me, and SIT was the best until Jagwire.

Of course, the comments regarding any burrs, or edges around the keyhead or fingers are great recommendations for you to check out.

I hope you are doing well, and not working as hard as you used to!

Talk with you soon,

David Spires

Marco Schouten · Post by **Marco Schouten** » 2 Jun 2005 1:53 pm

Also with the Jagwires you can have a bad one. I was changing strings last week and the 3rd string (from the TW set) broke at the point just above the ball, before the string was tuned.
Fortunately I had some extra strings.

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud LLG; Guyatone 6 string lap steel; John Pearse bar; Emmons bar; Evans SE200 amp

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 3 Jun 2005 12:53 am

i'm sold on Jagwire

i prefer the 11.5ers too

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 3 Jun 2005 7:32 am

I now use Jagwire strings exclusively, but have tried many brands over the years. I had the worst luck with EB strings breaking at the bridge, then with D'Addario. When I started using Jagwires Danny Hullihen clued me in to getting his short twist .011 or .0115 strings. They have less twist length at the bridge and flow more smoothly over the top, when pulled. If you are having breakage problems with the 3rd string, at the top of the bridge, I recommend trying Jagwire Short Twist thirds. They come in .011 and .0115.

Another thing that contributes to premature string breakage is lateral (side) motion, during the pull cycle. I had a Sho~Bud that broke a 3rd string every two or three days, and finally, after trying everything I could think to do, I had a friend put a micrometer on the guitar and measure the lateral motion during pulls. There was significant lateral movement. We manufactured a replacement finger assembly and tested again. This time the lateral motion was almost unmeasurable. From that time, until the hole in the finger wore out, I was able to get many weeks on a 3rd string. When enough time passed and that finger began to increase it's inside diameter, the string breakage increased in frequency.

My .02

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Bob "Wiz" Feinberg
1983 Rosewood Emmons D10 Push-Pull, with 8 pedals and 9 knee levers (Crawford Cluster), Lawrence LXR-16 pickups and aluminum necks. Nashville 400 amp with Peavey Mod. Emmons pedalbar mounted, and Goodrich LDR floor volume pedals.
I use and endorse Jagwire Strings and accessories.

Keep Steelin' but don't get caught!

Visit my Wiztunes website at: http://www.wiztunes.com/
or my main website: Wizcrafts Computer Services

[This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 03 June 2005 at 08:34 AM.]

JW Day · Post by **JW Day** » 3 Jun 2005 12:40 pm

I HAVE SWITCHED TO AN ELEVEN AND A HALF. IT DOESN'T SOUND QUITE SO TENNIE AND YET IT STILL HAS WONDERFUL HIGHS.

Jeff Hyman · Post by **Jeff Hyman** » 3 Jun 2005 1:20 pm

I prefer Ernie Ball. I just ordered a bunch
from http://www.JustStrings.com
I have always used .010 for my G#.
.011 seemed to break more often.

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Jeff Hyman
jeff@cactus.com
Sho~Bud LDG
WEBB and Fender Deluxe
www.HatCreekCountry.com
www.cactus.com