Teacher or Tab?

Rick Garrett · From: Tyler, Texas

Which is best to learn pedal steel guitar? Teacher or tab? I'm using a mixture of both. I learn a song with tab and then find my own licks to spice it up. Then I'll take that same song to my teacher and he'll chunk in his way to spice it up even further. Anybody else using both teach and tab to learn?

Rick

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Both is best.
You should be able to get new ideas and learn how other players think by using tab, but someone with experience -- preferably someone with some teaching experience -- can help avoid a lot of pitfalls in technique and those other details of playing steel -- everything from how high your seat or guitar should be to how to bend your picks for the best angle. It is MUCH easier to learn technique right the first time than to have to unlearn and relearn.

Another important aspect of having a teacher is to be able to watch someone play AT CLOSE RANGE and ask questions.

I believe that a teacher should DEFINITELY be a part of learning steel guitar. No written, audio, or video course cans see what you're doing and help fix it if anything is wrong.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Tab is an excellent resource but should not be the ONLY method.

Players MUST identify what the TAB is spelling out musically.

A couple of simple things that will assist are writing a simple chord chart and following the chord chart along with the TAB allows the player to identify relative chord positions that link phrases together. Also playing the same TAB in different keys allows the player to get it done in different positions and not be locked into only what key the TAB is in ..

A real LIVE teacher ain't bad either..
t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 30 May 2005 at 10:23 AM.]

Mike Hoover · From: Franklin, TN, USA

Rick,

that ain't fair, you are trying to get ahead of me

Mike

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Rick, I'd say you're doing it about right, and agree with others here, both are required.

Most beginners benefit greatly from a teacher, who can watch over technique and provide good direction (note: I always tell my students that this or that way of "technique x" is suggested as perhaps the best, or most common, way, but none of this is written in stone, and I share with them that I've seen poor technique not get in the way of making great music).

Teachers of course teach with tablature, there's just no other clear way to explain the details of playing our instrument.

I like to get my students up and running with basics, and after a long break, then return for more specific lessons when they've bumped into walls, or have specific songs or styles they need to work out.

Basics, btw, = chord grips; major, minor, 7th, 6th and 9th chords; major, minor and blues scales; and a lot of songs that help teach all those aspects. I also work hard to get their listening skills dialed in, that's extremely important.

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E9 lessons
Mullen D-12/Webb amp/Profex II

Ryan Giese · From: Spokane, Washington, USA

I would say a teacher for sure. The thing with tabs (unless you have a tape or CD or something) you do not know whether you have the timeing right unless you know the song very well. I have tried using tabs a lot and I have learned two songs mostly.

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

Teacher, who teaches you how to read tab, but uses it as less as possible!
Johan

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Click on the pic!

[This message was edited by Johan Jansen on 01 June 2005 at 03:59 AM.]

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

A lot of players I know learned by getting in bands REAL fast and then being FORCED to learn REAL quick!
I am not sure thats the best way but it can work for some guys..
Tab is ok, but you will learn more of the intricasies with a GOOD teacher.. the keyword here is GOOD.
Me ,I am not a good teacher, any many otherwise good players aren't.
A GOOD teacher is worth his weight in gold..like Larry said,he will help you avoid time wasting pitfalls in technique.
There are a million WRONG ways to play pedal steel!.. I know this because I base my entire style on them!! bob

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I actually don't think that most teachers use TAB as the one on one teaching tool.Sure in the big seminars such as Jeffs were, yes, that is the most efficient way, but keep in mind that at the big seminars maybe up to 25% are left behind...

My feeling on this for Instruction material the TALKING tapes and CD's carry immense value over the TAB alone. You're forced to listen, forced to play what the instructor states and have the opportunity to hear it as it is going on..yours and the teachers...

The overall biggest problem with TAB alone is that it teaches you WHAT to play but not WHAT you are playing...

there is no black and white, Tab is an excellent resource , but it should be used along with other methods.

Bob in upstate NY is correct in my view, go out and play..who cares if it's bad playing..just do it..playing live or jamming with other musicians cannot be replaced...

At some point the TAB only player MUST apply what the TAB is to the overall Instrument..the connection must be made...otherwise it's like reading the words in a book and at the end having no clue what it was you just read.

balance..

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 01 June 2005 at 05:27 AM.]

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

You can spend years woodshedding to tab and videos, and that first gig on the bandstand will make your legs wobbly.

A good steel playin' Nun with a steel guitar and one of them steel edged rulers would work...

Dan Burnham · From: Greenfield, Tennessee

You bring up an interesting point. I think we have all had trouble with this issue. I'm going to say a good combination of both. Unfortunately, most of us in the past played steel like how we drive our vehicles. We get in it learn just enough to operate it and go on. Most people in general don't understand how the break works with the accelerator or how to shift properly if your driving a stick. We all are facing the greatest challenge of in group of musicians. Not like the piano, or guitar, or bass, there are so many ways to play a chord and the more floors and knees you add the more possiblilites.

Now having said that, good teachers are hard to find, some of the best players are the worst teachers.

A good teacher will use tab to get the student to see the physical aspects of whats going on and then teach the student how, and why and whats its possibilites.

The reason why so many kids including myself quit piano lessons is because our teachers used the lesson book, taught from it but never spent the time to apply it.
You have to understand the music theory behind the tab, that is the logic and it seems that everybody wants to just teach the licks.

A good teacher, IMHO, which are far and few will instill in the student not only the mechanics but the logic, and passion for wanting to accomplish the goal.

But even a good teacher can lead a horse to water and not make it drink.

The successful results are:
1. Talent, got to have it at least a little.
2. Good Material
3. Guidance
4. Master the Basics.

We all want to be like Buddy over night and that just doesn't happen.

Having said that, tabs are a road map into the mind of the player. A good teacher will give you the direction to hopefully understand where the road goes and where it comes from.

One without the other is like a piano player that can sight read and not play by ear. It's just notes on paper. And the same is true for the player who only plays by ear, but the musician who can sight read and play by ear is the ultimate winner.

Get It done.

[This message was edited by Dan Burnham on 03 June 2005 at 08:57 PM.]

Gavin Dunn · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Don't discount any resource.

Hell, learn the Jug, and it will help your steel playing.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Tab is crap, (IMNSHO).
Sorry, but I can't put it an other way.
Yes, It might have been the only way some steelies could be reached with at least some kind of information years ago, but now, since there are quality videos and even DVD's as well as a better knowledge as to where you might find a teacher or picking buddy not sooo far away from you (through this Forum, OnlineSteelers.com and other resources)... Tab's a scrap.
Why?
Tab, while appearing to be a grafical approach still tells the student the wrong picture, as it will show the distance and relationship of notes played across the strings only but uses the "along the strings" axis to show some (poor) timing... Thus the in music repetitive and obvious relationships of the played material does not become immediatly obvious to the student who's additionally more concentrated with trying to execute a song or lick than to learn and anlize the music thaught (which are two very different things). The whole picture get's further blurred in that all material, independent of what ever key it is meant to be shown in, uses fret counting starting at the nut for along the string movement... numbering, which in most cases won't have anything to do with the key the material is shown in.

I therefor think that you should get in touch with somebody in your region who can play (at best in a life setting) or a proffesional teacher and in either case buy some quality video/DVD instruction from reputable and rutined teachers like Jeff Newman, Maurice Anderson, just to mention a few..

This is my opinion and I gather some will not agree with my stance about Tab... I can live with that and I hope they will too

... J-D.

[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 04 June 2005 at 03:25 AM.]

Rick Garrett · From: Tyler, Texas

Good responses here. Thanks to all and great post Tony. Makes a lot of sense.

Now my teacher is indeed teaching me the logic behind the licks that I've learned and I think in time, with practice, I'll know where I'm going. the thing that I notice about tab is that you cannot possibly learn every song you may want to play but if I know the neck of my guitar I can set in and jam with anybody on just about any song. Thats my goal!

Rick

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Nobody's mentioned ear training yet? Starting to learn lick off of records, and getting better at it over time, is how most people get better I think. Being able to sing what you intend to play is a help. Listening to, and learning exact melodies from, other instruments will break up an over-reliance on position playing.

Besides ear training, learning to read "real" music is the best favor you can do yourself (those bugs on a page). It opens up the whole world. Hal Leonard's "Classical Fake Book, 2nd Edition" has all the licks from cartoons, movies and TV that you'll ever need.

Spend at least part of your practice time with a metronome or better yet, a drum machine - you can pick up a decent old Alesis or Yamaha cheap ($30-$40) on Ebay.

Regarding position playing, try to play the same licks starting on different strings (I'm not sure if this works on E9th, I only play C6th). When I'm really locked in on steel, having had time to play several hours a day for several days in a row, I like to set a long echo on a delay machine then play licks and harmonize them in fourths and fifths - without changing position. Or you can try to play unison licks this way, but start each duplicate lick in a different position up the neck. You are forced to learn blocking this way, by playing those little "one-fret up, one-string over" jumps. This can be really frustrating, but I greatly fear that the most frustrating exercises probably bear the greatest fruit.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I think there are a lot of pitfalls in learning from tab. You don't get the logic behind the positions. Understanding the logical system is the real key to playing well.

Learning songs from tab is a good way for a beginner to fell like he's making progress. You get the feel of the bar, the picks, the pedals and knee levers, and you get the satisfaction of making some decent sounding music. But you haven't really learned much when you learn a song from tab.

To be a real steel guitarist you have to know what the pedals and levers do, where your chords are, how to stay in one key, etc. You can figure this stuff out on your own, learn it from a teacher, assimilate it from talking to other steelers or learn it from a written course, but it's really hard to get it from tabbed songs.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

Fred Rushing · From: Odin, IL, USA

IMO Ifyou want to play a phrase or complete song like one of your mentors might play it(BE LG PF) then the tab they provide is PRICELESS. I would sit all day a not get it like they did but once I saw how the master played it it opened up a whole new world into HIS way of thinking. Fred

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Tab is okay. It's cheap, and pretty slow, but it does give you the note-for-note roadmap. Of course, tab lacks timing cues, dynamics, expression, and any alternative way of doing something. Those are the things that real teachers offer. Videos are far better than tab, but still not as good as a personal teacher.

The two fastest methods for learning will always be a personal teacher, and just going out and watching everybody that plays, every chance you get. No one has ever become a great player just sitting and playing at home. You need exposure to other players and playing styles to become proficient.

Comraderie makes the whole process a lot more fun!

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