Pedal Steels you DISLIKED..

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 19 May 2005 1:11 pm

I don't know if I really disliked any of my guitars, but usually I moved on if they didn't feel comfortble to me or I was changing direction from Say D10 to S12 or S12 to D10, or looking for a lighter weight guitar,etc..........al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 19 May 2005 1:17 pm

I've only owned 3 pedal steel guitars. I can't say I disliked any, but the Fender 2000 probably came the closest. It only lasted 1 1/2 years.
I've owned a 71 PP Emmons D-10 (Black of course) and my present 82 Franklin.

Daniel J. Cormier · Post by **Daniel J. Cormier** » 19 May 2005 2:01 pm

Guitars I hated .Huuummmm !!!!!! How about a Rayline d-10 that was the most beautiful Bad guitar I ever owned.
Oh what may be it was that old Wheeler D-10 I bought for parts.

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Daniel J. Cormier
Desert Rose Lacquer D-10
EVans FET 500 LV Sessions 400 Limited ,ProFex II
http://www.cajunsteelguitar.com email at djcormier@cox-internet.com

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 19 May 2005 2:09 pm

I have had a MSA Formica WHite Loved it Black 1973 Formica Love It 2 Mullen One royal precission one regular loved both Derby 2004 D 10 Could not tune This Guitar. Zum d10 I liked It. 1996 D10 Legrande My Absolute Favorite Tone Is Wonderful Plays Smooth Stays In Tune.

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 19 May 2005 2:45 pm

Sho Bud single neck with the pot metal fingers....awful tone, Dekley s12 awful, BMI S12, no sustain, I just stay with Emmons PP with locking nut (virtual keyless), all I could ask for, tone and tuning stabilty, sort of noisy under carriage, but with a little foam rubber in spots on the rods and I love it

Mike Archer · Post by **Mike Archer** » 19 May 2005 3:04 pm

well for me it had to be my first steel
sho-bud maverick
it would brake changer fingers
just about every time i would mash
a and b pedals down and the tone was
sounded like shasta for a better word
had a blue Mullen steel d10 great steel
didnt like the color at all

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 19 May 2005 3:43 pm

Sho Bud super pro. Hated that dadgum rattle trap. I like things kind of quiet under the hood. Still searching for my guitar actually. I have that 66 Emmons coming and Im hoping it'll fit me just fine. I seem to be having real trouble finding the right guitar that fits, feels, and sounds like what I want. If this Emmons doesn't do the trick I might hang up the steel all together and just go back to picking 6 string. I never knew it would be so hard finding the right guitar. Emmons legrand came as close as any.

Rick

JW Day · Post by **JW Day** » 19 May 2005 3:44 pm

in the late 70's I decided I wanted to trade my ZB FOR A NEW P/P.I had Bud Hall order a new blue one for me. We thought it would be a dark blue, but when it got here, it had to be one of the uglyyyyyyist colors ever mfg'd. But . needless to say it had that perfect sound. Now I wish I still had it. Bud has never let me live down. I can't say I blame him.

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 19 May 2005 5:14 pm

An Emmons short key-head model. Shrill, thin sounding, and the keys were almost impossible to turn. Had another one that was practically identical looking, and it played/sounded great. No idea what caused the difference though.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 19 May 2005 5:22 pm

b0b has stated more than once that this forum is for discussion of steel PLAYERS.. NOT a manufacturers hype forum. -Bob C-.

Hmm.....

naawww..

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 19 May 2005 at 06:23 PM.]

Jerry Erickson · Post by **Jerry Erickson** » 19 May 2005 7:04 pm

I can't think of any I've hated. They've all been part of a journey.(choke,gag,LOL) Kind of a technique and tonal stepping stone thing. I've owned a Fender 8 string,Bud Pro 1, MSA D-10, (2)D-12 Emmons PP, a D10 Emmons PP, a Fessy D10 and a GFI D10 and they've all had something to say.

Scott Denniston · Post by **Scott Denniston** » 19 May 2005 7:13 pm

I really liked my ol Dekley's looks, mechanism, and sound BUT....The strings were a bit closer together than a Sho-Bud and lower to the neck. I could speed pick on it ok it's just that the Bud was more comfortable because of the string spacing and height. I was even used to the D shaped levers on the Dekley. That was one solid steel. I'd still be playing it if it hadn't been for that string thing.

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 19 May 2005 9:21 pm

Liked just fine: '69/'70 ZB S-10. (Trouble was, I was not committed enough to playing and didn't know of any teachers in LA. I obviously was unaware of the SGF.)

Hate (but want to love, and will not surrender to): **'69 ZB D-10.

I see my latter sentiments are far from unique. One fortunate recent difference ("...more time adjusting than playing...") is I've recently borrowed a ca. '69 Sho-Bud S-10 Professional 6139 3+1. While it's no luxury machine and I'm no kinda player and I haven't adjusted the undercarriage yet, it's an exhilarating improvement over being stymied and pummeled by the D-10. Imagine the difference between being chauffeured in a Rolls-Royce with a bucket of Mumm's Extra Dry (my favorite) within easy reach as opposed to being dragged downhill over a gravel road behind a driverless, leaking Port-a-Potty pumper truck.

The disparity between the Sho-Bud and the ZB D-10 is more intense by a factor of two or three hundred times.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 20 May 2005 5:28 am

wasn't tone in the hands?

JJ

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Click on the pic!

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 20 May 2005 9:26 am

Okay, well I might as well join this bitch session. Some people might think this is all really petty, but I think it is valuable for newbies who are buying used instruments. Also, some manufacturers might learn a thing or two.

My first pedal steel was one of the good early wood-neck Mavericks. Around 1974 I had Sho-Bud replace the original undercarriage with the latest Maverick undercarriage, which was not that different from a pro permanent. It was 3 and 2. I stripped off the original puke powder blue enamel and gave it a beautiful natural lacquer finish. But the 2nd string lower lever didn't always return true, and the pickup was a real hummer.

Next I got an S12 extended E9 Emmons push/pull. Once I learned the trick of not tightening the neck too much, it has had unmatchable tone. I replaced the single-coil pickup with a TrueTone, and couldn't tell much difference - the original was that good. I have converted it to an E9/B6 3 and 4 universal, and will someday add more pedals and levers. With great difficulty, I have learned to keep it in playable adjustment. But the action is clunky and less adjustable compared to modern all-pulls. It threw a rod or something in the middle of a gig, and I haven't taken the time to repair it yet. But over the long run I will keep this instrument playable for it's great vintage tone.

Next I got a used S12 universal Fessy. The BL 412 humbucker was shrill. Some of the string pins on the changer were too short. There was a catch at the end of travel on some pedals, caused by the pull rod twisting. I found setup changes difficult to make. The bellcrank screws were hard to get to, and the pull rods didn't slip into the bellcrank slots without bending the crank, and would sometimes pop out. The nut rollers were not gauged. For various reasons, this is less a problem with D10s, but is a major problem with a uni.

When the Fessy got stolen, I took the opportunity to get a Zum uni. This '90s Zum is well designed, looks gorgeous, and has no major problems. I think I've found my true love. I love the V slots in the changer that hold the ball ends without popping out when changing strings. The nut rollers are gauged. Moving the old bellcranks insanely required removing the crossbar, and the bellcrank screws were hard to reach. The new Zum bellcranks are easier to change. Now I have a mixture of the two types, and will eventually replace all the old ones.

I got a used Carter D12 to experiment with copedants. I wanted to try a Sacred Steeler E7 tuning on the outer neck, and a universal on the inner neck. But that has turned out to be a bigger job than I imagined. All the knee levers have to be taken off and repositioned, and I have to order a heckuva lot of parts. I'm wondering if I will ever get around to this project. Maybe it's just as well. The Carter mechanics seem good, but the nut rollers are not gauged. The color is somewhere between light turquoise and sky blue. Maybe that would look good out West somewhere, or in Hawaii, but anywhere else it looks silly. The plastic Carter fretboard may be practical, but it looks ugly compared to the brightly painted fretboards of my other steels. The low profile neck is probably a good idea. But it looks and feels strange to play. Most of these problems with the Carter may be unique to me and this guitar. I think Carters are good modern pedal steels. [This message was edited by David Doggett on 20 May 2005 at 10:57 AM.]

Hans Holzherr · Post by **Hans Holzherr** » 20 May 2005 11:19 am

My first steel was a Framus. Need I say more? Didn't stay in tune and had an awful tone.
I have a Carter S-12 which has a great tone, but I have a hard time adjusting to the narrow pedal spacing.

Hans

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 20 May 2005 5:37 pm

Note to Randy Gilliam: And you told me you sold me the Derby D-10 because you did not like the color, shame on you! But seriously, after I received the guitar from you and changed it around to my copedant, I tweaked it a little and have had no problems with it staying in tune at all. As they say, "one man's trash......

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 20 May 2005 9:15 pm

My worst guitars? I had a D-10 ZB Custom, beautiful brown/tan wood guitar. Would not stay in tune. Early 70's model. Sho-Bud D-10 Professional Model,mahogany color,early 70's model. Forget it staying in tune. Broke the 3rd string every night I played it. Had S-10D Fessenden in the mid-90's I think it was. May have been later. Anyway, I had to tune it after each song. Really, after every song. Had four Nashville Ltd. guitars. Three of them always had tuning problems and even had the rod that goes through the pedal bar on a S-10D to actually slip out while I was playing one night during the first set. Whoever built it apparently forgot to put a allen screw in place to hold the sliding bar in place. The changers on these were not very good either. Tuning nightmare. But I did have a Doug Jernigan Model NV Ltd., black mica, D-10 that was as good a guitar as I've ever had. There's been some more guitars with problems over the years but I don't remember them right now. When your playing live or especially doing studio work the last thing you need is guitar troubles. That's one reason I'm a CARTER man. When they send you a guitar you don't have to worry about it. Just adjust the Pedals/KL's to the way you like them and then play. Of course, there's other guitars out there that are just as good as the CARTERS but I found what I like and it fits me perfectly. If I were to switch brands which I'm not planning on doing it would be a Zumsteel. My other choices are listed in the order I would probably choose: (1) Carter (2) Zumsteel (3) Mullen (4) GFI (5) Excel w/5-raise & 5-lower mech. (6) MSA new one only (7) Pedalmaster (8) Derby (Note> Don't anyone take it personally about my guitar choices. This is only my opinion guys. I like all of the guitars I listed. Matter of fact the only one I hadn't had a chance to play is the new MSA's.)

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 20 May 2005 10:52 pm

Mine would have to be the Super-Pro I had. Kept breaking parts and at the time, I didn't know about the forum and the people making replacement parts. It didn't have the "Bud" tone I was expecting. At the same time, I was playing a Kline guitar, which was a great guitar. That may have made my opinion of the Bud a little harsh. But, it was the only guitar I was not sad to let go of.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 21 May 2005 12:10 pm

I lucked out. My first steel, which is still my promery instrument, is an MSA maple body with a lacquer finish. Gerry Walker (of Stereo Steel amps) told me it's the best sounding MSA he ever heard. (BTW Gerry is another great player who deserves more recognition than he gets.)

My other guitar, is an older MSA mica guitar. It's not bad, but it's definately not in the same class as the wood body, and suffers by comparison.

It has been retrofitted with the Sierra interchangable pickup system, and I've been trying different pickups, and so far the True Tone seems to be the best.

I keep it for 2 reasons. The first is that although it doesn't sound as good as my wood body, there are times when I want to use it on a recording to get a different sound. The other is that it's more durable than the wood body, and it's useful for taking to jams or places where I'd be afraid the other one might get damaged.

I think that people who have only experienced the mica MSA guitars may not realize how much better the maple ones are.

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 21 May 2005 3:00 pm

Let's see..
Sho-Bud s-12, Williams U-12, MSA D-10+S-10, Marlin S-10, Pro-II, 2 Mullen D-10's,PP S-10, Fessenden S-10, Carter D10 and S-10, Fuzzy D-10(Actually wish I still had it).
I bought a Legrande II new in '91, it's the only one I kept and I have no desire to get anything else.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 21 May 2005 3:23 pm

had many and love them all,some better then others but most of the time you get what you paid for.I never expected $5000 quality out of $500 steel`s.

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html

Charlie Wallace · Post by **Charlie Wallace** » 23 May 2005 9:20 am

My nightmare steel story is about an MCI I bought in 1986 (somewhere around there anyway). I had an Emmons single 12 that I had been playing for seven years. I lost the Emmons when I was working at the Oak Grove Club near Redding California with Kelly and the Roadies, a band from Medford Oregon. The owner (Amos somebody) decided to burn the bar down one night to collect some insurance money. He was about to get away with it when his wife, on counsel from her priest, told the insurance people what really happened. Amos ended dong time in jail and the last I heard was that he went blind in prison..... Anyway, I wanted to buy another Emmons but decided to go with the MCI because that's what Buddy was endorsing at the time. When the guitar finally arrived I took it to work that night at a club I was playing at near Yreka California. Needless to say, I was very excited to not have to play the Sho-Bud student model I had borrowed. The MCI had a six position switch on it and during the first song I was experimenting with the different sounds. Well it seemed that the switch wasn't tightened down enough to the body and when I turned it the entire switch rotated and pulled the wires out. I ended up having to turn the guitar upside down and resolder the switch. In addition to that problem the guitar had the absolute worse cabinet drop. It was another single 12 with a drop on the low E string down to a C#. That change never came back in tune on release of the pedal. Finally, it was the noisiest guitar I ever heard, always humming. I disliked the instrument so much I stopped playing in 1990 and switched to Bluegrass Dobro. About six years ago I got the urge to start playing steel again and traded the MCI for a 1965 single 10 Emmons that is a real pleasure to play.
I know other people have had good experiences with MCI's and that in general they have a good reputation. I must admit that the MCI I owned was pretty to look at and one of the tone settings on the 6 position switch was pretty good.

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 23 May 2005 2:35 pm

I still dont like the color . Do You?

Barry Westerfield · Post by **Barry Westerfield** » 23 May 2005 2:56 pm

I dislike all steels that sound better than mine,I was about to sell all my equipment when I listened too that young man(I believe his name is Austin) at the convention in St. Louis...

My

Dislike though would be

"Little Buddy"

"GFI Economy"

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