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Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
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- Bobby Lee
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I don't think you need a 12 string!
Seriously, your playing in a pretty high register all the time. That works okay for lead lines, but I suspect that it would really bug the singer after a while. What do you do when someone else is taking the lead?
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<font size="1"><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)</font>
Seriously, your playing in a pretty high register all the time. That works okay for lead lines, but I suspect that it would really bug the singer after a while. What do you do when someone else is taking the lead?
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<font size="1"><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)</font>
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What b0b is leading up to is that there is a place for lower clusters of strings used for chording and playing with the rhythm section; and those lower strings can produce nice, cello-like melodies.
Try lower strings. A nice relief from staying up in the stratosphere.
Chris (also 12-string extended E9)
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now living in the Ocean State ....
Try lower strings. A nice relief from staying up in the stratosphere.
Chris (also 12-string extended E9)
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now living in the Ocean State ....
- Erv Niehaus
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- Dave Mudgett
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John, I did this when I first started playing. In fact, the instructional video I saw discussed mostly those 4 strings. But I agree with b0b, it's pretty limited, especially for backup. I also find constant high-pitch stuff fatigues the ears.
I suggest you work in some lower grips, like 8,6,5,(4) or 10,8,6,(5) (parenthesis if you use 4 fingers instead of 3). On the open strings, these grips also make an E chord, and you get the A chord with the AB pedals, etc., but you have to worry about skipping strings, which requires more right hand control. There's a lot of music on the lower strings, and we haven't even started to talk about strings 7 and 9.
I suggest you work in some lower grips, like 8,6,5,(4) or 10,8,6,(5) (parenthesis if you use 4 fingers instead of 3). On the open strings, these grips also make an E chord, and you get the A chord with the AB pedals, etc., but you have to worry about skipping strings, which requires more right hand control. There's a lot of music on the lower strings, and we haven't even started to talk about strings 7 and 9.
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I found a cool inversion in a guitar magazine that utilizes the lower strings. Play your triads (major and minor) skipping every other step. For instance play a C major chord C, G, E (where E is a 10th above the root note C). And just move that inversion up; next would be G, E, C (where C is an 11th above the G). Does that make sense?
I need more work on using the lower strings also. It seems like everytime I try, I end up in the same regiter as the electric guitar player if he is just playing chords, and it sounds really muddy to me.
Todd
I need more work on using the lower strings also. It seems like everytime I try, I end up in the same regiter as the electric guitar player if he is just playing chords, and it sounds really muddy to me.
Todd
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- Dave Grafe
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Ray is hinting at the REAL goods, i.e. what you can do with the 7 and 9 strings as the root of some pretty fat chords.
The four strings you mention DO get used a lot, but it's the rich sounds of the lower strings that get me off when I'm not playing lead rides (and sometimes even when I am).
Spend some time in practice playing 6/8/10 string chords, check out the dom 7th at the 9 string and the 9th at the 7 string with your pedals-up chords, lots of the best sounds on the instrument involve using one or both of those two strings.
The four strings you mention DO get used a lot, but it's the rich sounds of the lower strings that get me off when I'm not playing lead rides (and sometimes even when I am).
Spend some time in practice playing 6/8/10 string chords, check out the dom 7th at the 9 string and the 9th at the 7 string with your pedals-up chords, lots of the best sounds on the instrument involve using one or both of those two strings.
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I'm also guilty,,,a friend of mine showed me the 9th string lower with the a and b pedals,,starting on strings 10 9 and 8,,then 9 8 and 7..ect,,,cool sounding c 6th,,cords on the e 9th,,,played a gig sat,night,,and over used this one all night,,,had a few people tell me i'm getting better,,at least i fooled a few more of them,,,
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I fall into this trap regularly - probably cause I'm lazy. I have found it useful to think to myself at the start of a song that I will try to get through it without doing all my usual cliche stuff on those three strings. There is a whole new world down on the lower string that I'm discovering - specially with the E changes, and some nice 6 / 9 chords. Glad to hear it's not just me who needs to break out of the 3/4/5/6 confort zone....
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How much you can use the lower voicings depends on two things, the other instrumentation, and the tone you use. In a big band, with a lot of other instruments playing in the same register, it gets awfully busy if you use them often. And, it also gets "muddy" (clashes with the electric bass) if you are using a bassy tone.
- Leslie Ehrlich
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I find the second string on the E9th neck useless for the kind of stuff I'm doing. I play mostly three chord rock in major or minor keys, and that second string doesn't work anywhere. I'm tempted to retune both E9th and C6th necks to open major and minor chords, but then the whole guitar would have to be re-rodded to make chord changes possible.
- Bill Terry
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- Mark van Allen
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I've always been fascinated with the lack of discussion of "rhythm steel". In a lot of the bands I play with I see my function as somewhere between a fiddle or guitar and keyboard, and I play a lot of rhtyhm using the lower registers. Mandatory on rockish stuff. I have a lot of fun trying to groove with the hi-hat.
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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
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- Bobby Lee
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The second string is indispensible for fast licks in any kind of music. Try this in your rock solos in E or Em, just for a taste:<SMALL>I find the second string on the E9th neck useless for the kind of stuff I'm doing. I play mostly three chord rock in major or minor keys, and that second string doesn't work anywhere.</SMALL>
<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
1 __________________________________________
2 ______15_______________15_________________
3 __________________________________________
4 __15_______________15_____________________
5 __________15A--15__________15A--15________
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1 __________________________________________
2 ______15________________13________________
3 __________________________________________
4 __15________________13____________________
5 __________15A--13A__________13A--12A______
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1 __________________________________________
2 ______12D_________________________________
3 __________________________________________
4 __12_________________12___________________
5 ___________12A--12________________________
</pre></font>There are a lot of possibilities in that 4-2-5 pattern.
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<font size="1"><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)</font>
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- Bob Hoffnar
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It sounds like you don't have a good understanding of the fret board if you are limited to certain strings. One way to help get past that is to take any lick you know and play the exact same notes on 3 different places on the neck. Its a trick Lloyd Green showed me a while back. I really gets you thinking about how the tuning functions.
Another way to get past limitations that I use is Joe Wright's spreadsheet program:
www.pedalsteel.com/joe/pro/sheet.html
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Bob
intonation help
Another way to get past limitations that I use is Joe Wright's spreadsheet program:
www.pedalsteel.com/joe/pro/sheet.html
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Bob
intonation help
- Joe Yednasty
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If you really want to learn other strings, take some of the commonly used ones off and play with some missing strings. I know that when one of my strings broke and I had to wait for the replacement to be shipped, I began to play with the strings that were on there and learned how to use some that I hardly ever touched.
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"Eskimo" Joe Yednasty
Emmons P/P S-10
Peavey Session 500
Ralph Mooney Fan
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"Eskimo" Joe Yednasty
Emmons P/P S-10
Peavey Session 500
Ralph Mooney Fan
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- Gordon Borland
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I play with a four piece band drums, bass,lead guitar and I double on keys but never in the same song like Winston Oneal does.
When the lead gutiar takes his lead I use the lower triads to "boom chick" rythum in shuffels ie Crazy Arms, Pride. On the ballads
I use the bottom triads for long sustain "fat chords" to allow the vocal to float on. I think of the steel more as an orchestra and voice the chords like a string section. When I joined the band about twelve years ago I asked the band leader what he wanted from the steel during his leads. He said "the fatter the better". I try to do the best I can but I am up to two hunddred and sixty pounds and I really dont think its good for my health.
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Gordon Borland
MSA D10,NASHVILLE 400,SESSIONS 2000,PEAVEY ADDVERB,SOME WIRES AND A BATTERY.
When the lead gutiar takes his lead I use the lower triads to "boom chick" rythum in shuffels ie Crazy Arms, Pride. On the ballads
I use the bottom triads for long sustain "fat chords" to allow the vocal to float on. I think of the steel more as an orchestra and voice the chords like a string section. When I joined the band about twelve years ago I asked the band leader what he wanted from the steel during his leads. He said "the fatter the better". I try to do the best I can but I am up to two hunddred and sixty pounds and I really dont think its good for my health.
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Gordon Borland
MSA D10,NASHVILLE 400,SESSIONS 2000,PEAVEY ADDVERB,SOME WIRES AND A BATTERY.